Hey lady if you cannot pronounce "Bharat" it is ok to say "India"
I regret ever watching videos of Gabriella Burnel in more ways than one. Now YouTube keeps recommending an avalanche of white women trying to go native and horribly mispronouncing Indian words to rapturous applause of Hindus as seen in the comment section.
Here we have Melissa Kapoor "ji" who keeps talking about her trip to b'raat. Which I assume is supposed to mean Bharat. Admiteddly the sound "bh" is rather difficult for Westerners to master as there dont seem to be a lot of words in European languages with that sound. Ok until you do, please dont say Bharat.. It just sounds like "brat" as in "spoilt brat". She sounds like she is referring to an ancient land as a narcissist and indulgent pre pubescent. Just say "India". You dont become a commie psec desh drohi if you do so.
Why the Festival of Bharat promotes these people I never know. Oh wait, I do. I wont repeat it as rubbing too much salt in the wounds of Hindutvadis is bad form. However these same people turned what is supposed to be a cultural festival into a propaganda outfit for BJP and Modi in particular. Melissa for example claims demonetization as an unparalleled success but offers zero evidence to back up her claims.
I dont mean to be snide but some Indian fashion consultants should advise white women on Indian clothing and accessories. These evolved over millenia for the Indic complexions and facial features. Most western women dont realize the Indian clothing and accessories they currently adorn does not suit them and it takes a lot more effort and trial and error for them to look presentable rather than garish in Indian attire.
oh btw , she runs her own channel called "English Bahen". She knows exactly what she is doing.
Offtopic
ReplyDeletehttps://pajeet.top/pol/res/95849.html
What do you think of this thread? Who do you think was worse, mughal or british?
They were both terrible . But in different ways. Secular historians say that if the Mughals werent weakened then there is no way the EIC could establish dominance in India. Yes that is true but what point of supporting one bloodthirsty foreign tyranny in order to defend against another? Marathas lacking a centralized structure and military ability werent able to keep the British in check but atleast for a while they gave many Hindus breathing space to recoup . Its another thing that Marathas themeselves became tyrannical and demanding 50% chauth.
DeleteSeculars make comical claims that Mughals were Indianized but British were foreign. Hahaha. All Mughal rulers proudly claimed to be of Timurid lineage and spoke Persian holding Indian culture in contempt. Ironically the Mughal apart from Bahadur Shah II most attached to India was Aurangzeb. Unlike Shah Jahan, Akbar and Babur his neck was permanently craned towards central Asia.
Shah Jahan spent a lot of treasury fighting to regain Uzbekistan from the Safavids.
Marathas were very ineffective soldiers compared to Telegus. They were only good raiders and guerilla fighters. I think at panipat most Afghan casualties were from Telegu infantry. Marathis have hardly even ruled themselves lol
DeleteSecond paragraph is important.Shah Jahan and Jahangir were straight morons. Babur was the military genius, Akbar was the decent ruler who patronized Indian religions. Humayun was useless. Aurangzeb was an able military leader but wasted his time on the wrong kingdom
Well Marathas and Telugus generally had different abilities. Marathas were light cavalry while Telugus were infantry. Ibrahim Khan Gardi commanded Telugu troops during Panipat and his flank performed the best. While armchair analysing is easy, really it is not too difficult for even a novice to see that Panipat battle was lost even before the combatants entered the field due to various strategic,diplomatic and logistical errors prior to it.
DeleteMarathis as a people are really in essence not that different from Pathans. A conglomerate of pastoralists accustomed to horses from hilly regions ruled by and hired as mercenaries by foreign powers. Just as Pushtun culture emanated from Turkic rule including clothing , horsemanship and music, similarly Maratha clothing and culture owes more to Muslim rule.
If you see earlier attempts of Marathas building temples, it is quite comical as they resemble medieval persian architecture rather than Chalukya or Rashtrakuta structures.
Eh. Most Marathis i have seen are very weak and smalled framed compared to the more martial telegoos are rajpootana-walas. Many telegoo women are stronger than Marathi men. They never won not one pitched battle and relied on poorbiyas and Telegus to fight its battle. The telegu king Sri Ranga Raya single handedly slaughtered 50,000 poor golconda soldiers whom was led by a Marathi slave for the deccan sultans.
DeleteI think their enslavment at the hands of more martial Kannadigas and Telegus could invade and conquer Maharastra under Chalukyas and Kakatiyas is due to the very weak frame of these Marathis. Even Naga Sadhus (naked brohmins) could stalemate them at Lalsot with just swords and shields.
Could you please provide me the source for the claim that Gardi infantry used Telugu troops. As this is the first time I am hearing it and would like to read more about it.
Delete@Bharadwaj
DeleteI believe you are referring to Murari Rao who was defeated by Ranga Raya. Ranga Raya achievements were far impressive than victories by Vijayanagar as he did not have the resources that this empire commanded but really had a stub of a kingdom.
This Murari Rao plundered a statue of Vishnu laden with precious rubies and presented it to the Sultan and when this same Murari Rao was captured by Ranga Raya, he pleaded to spare his life since he was a Brahmin! What chutzpah. Reminds me of the Jewish joke where the teenager who killed his parents pleads with the judge in court to be lenient since he is an orphan.
Marathas are generally a short people. Though Maratha castes can be sturdy. I think it is cities such as Mumbai that makes them unhealthy. Perhaps in the Sahyadri areas they are better built. But i have never been there.
Telugus can get rather tall (no one really stares at men 6 feet and above in curiosity =in AP or Telangana) but generally they are wiry rather than muscular. Hsuien Tsang noticed more than 1000 years ago that men of Telangana were rather muscular.Faminesmterrible diet and cousin marriages took care of that lol.
However in the country side, I see farmers who have massive forearms that would put U.S Marines to shame.
Generally Telugus like many other diets consume more carbs than neccessary. However there is no taboo against meat in general so there is no impediment to protein.
Marathas and Kannadigas are a relatively laid back people. You wont find a Marathi in any entrepreneurial activity apart from vada pav stalls. Just give them a government job with pension and they are quite content.
Do not scoff at Naga Sadhu, they may not look like much but they practice years of martial arts training and tapas on a very restricted diet. Those guys are not to be messed with even today. These Naga sadhus in their limited numbers fended off an earlier invasion by Abdali in Varanasi and sent him fleeing back.
Later they joined the same Abdali even though he was so embarassed by their nudity that he insisted they be in the rear flank hahahaha.
@siva
Deletehttps://books.google.ae/books?id=T7q0z7BdvyQC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=tilanga+ibrahim+khan+gardi&source=bl&ots=GR6eEMwVYp&sig=ACfU3U2f1qGLX3ij6KEgreVr3fvgZlfUIQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG7Jm3zeXqAhVExYUKHQE2AqoQ6AEwH3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=tilanga%20ibrahim%20khan%20gardi&f=false
Both Khan and Gardi are titles bestowed upon him. Gardi is an Indicization of the French word "guard" meaning guard haha. He was in charge of the Telugu troops of the Nizam and they were trained in French methods.
Gardi was bestowed by the French and Khan by the Nizam. Like Hyder Ali, he was a Deccani ,i.e local convert. Though at this point many Afghans, Iranians as well started identifying as Deccani.
The earlier Nizam did Persianize his administration and Pushtunize his military to some extant but like the Golconda rulers ,who were often known as Telugu sultans, he did heavily depend on local Reddys and Kammas in the interior to maintain order. Many others joined the Nizam service who were often Kapus, Balijas and other castes to be drilled in European infantry warfare because the aristocratic Nayakas considered the use of guns to be dishonorable.
Tilanga generally refers to Telugu speaking troops , tthese were deployed by the British across Bengal and U.P to maintain order. At one point Tilanga became synonymous for soldier. Generally they were mercenaries for whoever paid well and regularly. They became so powerful that they could charge into Bahadur Shah Zafar II court and scold him for arrears in payment. The pliant and helpless "emperor" could only plead with them to show patience.
@ysv_rao
DeleteThanks for the link. And I also heard the claim earlier from some other people that Hyder Ali was a Deccani, though there seems to be no evidence of that. So, I believe we need to be careful about this claim.
We can only speculate on Hyder Ali's origins. Yes his court historians created a genelogy linking him to Prophet mohd through Persia as well as Afghan aristocracy.
DeleteHyder Ali's father seems rooted in the Kolar area beyond which there is really no info. Therefore it is quite likely that he is a local convert.
The Persianization of administration that he undertook was a reflection of Persians being respected for these skills . Contrary to what many claim, the main language of the court remained Kannada. But as lot of Rajputs and Pathans poured to meet his cavalry needs ,Urdu became defacto language of the military.
@ysv_rao Hahaha. Yea it really struck me how Marathas quite literally never won a battle in the open. But do you have any source for Naga Sadhus? I need it to piss of Khalistanis and MNS deluded fanboys
Deletealso, i agree regarding the Maratha-Pathan comparison. Both were literal slaves for centuries. And when did Marathas be used as mercenaries? IK Rajputana never relied on those Pahadi Chuhas
DeleteI couldnt find a more objective source but this account is accurate from what I know
Deletehttps://satyavijayi.com/political-military-asceticism-part-hinduism/
"In Gokul, the relentless Nagas held a wild and reckless charge against the Afghan Cavalry. Naga sadhus, who have already renounced the world, had little regard for their own lives. Their fierce counter attack left the Afghan attackers confused and they retreated to their defeat. But some time later, the Afghans returned reinforced and a bitter struggle took place. Both fought with zeal and valour. While the Afghans fought for loot, plunder and rape, Naga sadhus fought only for Dharma and faith. Naga sadhus did not give ground to Afghan attackers.
Abdali’s otherwise undefeated soldiers were helpless in front of the Naga sadhus. Abdali threw more troops in the battle but they also met with renewed charges and attacks from Naga Sanyasis. Soon the Afghans began to lose hope of victory and their leader Jahan Khan called a retreat and the Afghans fell back in defeat and humiliation. And thus, they saved the holy town of Gokul."
I see no reason to use the Mughal abusive term to describe Marathas. They were not a net positive but let us appreciate what they attempted even as they became rapacious and corrupt like the Pathans who they hated.
DeleteMarathas were used by Bahmani and later Ahmadnagar sultans, sometimes even by golkonda sulatans in their wars against Vijayanagar and its descendants as you pointed out earlier.
@ysv_rao Interesting. Naga Sadhus sent abdali fleeing for his life but Seekhs nor Marathas could do the same?
DeletePahadi Chuha was a literal description of their fighting tactics tho lol. as it takes Rajputs or Telegus to resist turks effectively, not Maharattis.
Alright enough of the Maratha trolling. I truly respect shivaji and his approach to guerilla warfare. I like how he connected himself to pratap and took his tactics to use geography as an advantage against them. The Balaji Baji rao ruined it sadly. Had Peshwa Bajirao 1 been alive for panipat, India would have had its first trans indian army in history.
DeleteIf cross dressing emperor Qutubuddin Aibak was less of a tyrant and more inclusive , then too we would have the first "trans" Indian army hahahaha
DeleteOn the very same day I checked out some videos of Gabriella Burnol, I also had a look at other videos from the Festival of Bharat cringefest. I came across Melissa Kapoor's video on the sides and I decided to run far away from it.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I have 2 queries:
1. In one video, Madhu Kishwar claimed that Indian men are hardly patriarchal and love to be dominated by women. How far is that true?
2. Apart from White people, are there other races Indians bow over to, like Japanese or Koreans? I know for a fact that South Asian Muslims look up to Middle Easterners and Central Asians. I am asking in general.
Thank you.
1. There is a contradiction in these patriarchal societies such as say Arabs and Indians. Inside the house, generally the mother holds an incredible amount of power. The father may be final decision maker but day to day operations is run by the mother. An analogy can be made of the President and Prime Minister. Mothers have a far more psychic hold over them than fathers. This is not healthy. And this leads to Bharatmata, gaumata obsessions
Delete2. Yes Japanese and koreans look up to whites considerably though not the same degree. As they are already developed first world countries. But they have a psychological baggage India does not have- they are countries occupied by U.S.
Indian Pakistani Muslims leave no chance to claim origins from Iraq, Iran, Uzbekistan and what have you. Yes for Pakistanis especially Arabs are by default superior to whom deference is required in all matters. An exception to this are Balochis who tell them to get bent.
Ill tell you a funny story. When I was working in a conference organizer company as a content consultant of sorts, there was a sales manager - a very charismatic Malayalee Muslim with an arabic sounding name, who called a Pakistani bank in Pakistan to participate in a conference. This Pakistani chap who was GM of the branch was told they the sales manager called twice before. He overheard the GM say to his secretary "oh no, I dont want to get this Arab guy angry, perhaps he will yell at me. hahhaa. Look at this situation. A sales guy of any stature is a supplicant by default. The person who is pitched has the authority and power to say no. Even so bank manager is a position of authority and respect. And this guy was terrified of a (seemingly) Arab sales guy.
That is Pakistan for you.
1. That is a very interesting take on this issue. Thank you for telling me.
Delete2. Maybe I did not phrase myself properly. I wanted to ask if Indians bow down to Japanese and Korean people the same way they do so Whites. I have observed that a lot of millennials and Generation Z people: Whites, Arabs, Blacks and other people seem to be extremely attached to Japan and Korea, the former due to anime and the latter due to BTS type pop music. A handful of buffoons even go as far as whitewashing the crimes of Imperial Japan!
Pakistan is really pitiable. But then among Indian Muslims, I am not 100% sure but it seems lower caste Muslims are increasingly no longer interested in issues like Palestine, Syria, Turkey, etc., and are instead focused on reclaiming their rights to a dignified life in India. They have grievances towards upper caste Hindus and Muslims whom they accuse of conspiring to keep them poor and powerless. However my observation may not be complete and may also be off the mark.
Indians do admire Japanese and Koreans though I dont know if they are obsequious to them. From what I see thats not the case. Though this could if they are in those countries. The obsession with the Japanese in America started in the 1980s when the corporate media went gaga over the Japanese model until the bubble burst and a more healthier sort of fascination for its heritage and popular culture took over. I dont see the appeal of Kpop but its not targetting to my age group so ok.
DeleteI see a considerable reduction overall in pan Muslim issues in pretty much all Muslim countries. There was a time when say an invasion of Chechnya by the Russians or Israeli incursions in West Bank and Gaza would inflame Indians , Pakistani Mulims as well as European Muslim immigrants and proceed to protest and riot. All that has ended.
I suspect the 2003 invasion of Iraq, capture of Saddam andthe devastation that has cause has deeply broken the psyche of Muslims worldwide. Similar to how the Jews were demoralized to the point of passivity after the Romans destroyed the Temple.
Add to the psy ops campaign by unlikely groups such as porn producers which feature Muslim women doing porn and the effect is complete.
Muslims feel deeply incompetent and ineffective on the world stage. Uyghurs are being exterminated and boarded onto trains to "Reeducation ,work camps" like Jews during WWII and they say nothing to avoid the wrath of China.
In such a situation they can only look inward and fix their own sorroundings. SO a blessing in disguise.
Maybe K-pop does not target your age group but a lot of young people of all nationalities are literally suffering from Korean fever thanks to bands like BTS. Incidentally I was never attracted to them to this extent. Of course, I liked anime a lot but even that has gone to the back-burner now.
DeleteIs that why a good number of Muslims look up to Erdogan now, in hopes that he will revive Muslim pride worldwide or something? He converted Istanbul's Hagia Sofia into a mosque a few weeks back and proclaimed that good times for Islam are around the corner.
Is Turkey the new Iran/Saudi Arabia?
/Add to the psy ops campaign by unlikely groups such as porn producers which feature Muslim women doing porn and the effect is complete./
Is this not an old phenomenon? Or is it something that's more recent? I mean, women including Muslim women acting in porn has been happening for ages, no? Or is there a sharp spike of Muslim women doing porn in recent times?
oh god. Now there is some other chick called Karolina Goswami headlining festival of Bharat or Brat! I didnt even bother clicking on the video. What the Nazis failed to do ,internet Indians have managed to achieve- handover Hinduism to whites lock stock and barrel.
DeleteI suppose its true you catch more flies with more honey than vinegar. The analogy is a bit flawed because I have more respect for flies than for internet Hindus nowadays.
"Is that why a good number of Muslims look up to Erdogan now, in hopes that he will revive Muslim pride worldwide or something? He converted Istanbul's Hagia Sofia into a mosque a few weeks back and proclaimed that good times for Islam are around the corner."
DeleteIts amazing that Erdogan can do this and no word from our seculars. There is zero dispute that this was a church once. Erdogan is opening up new wounds for the Orthodox peoples of Russia and the Balkans. This is not something that will be forgiven annd forgotten by them. There will be something ugly coming. Actually Erdogan seeks to repair what I spoke of just earlier- Islamic demoralization. But he has bitten off more than he can chew. These types of people always over reach and then are destroyed.
I like to put my porn watching days behind me for the most part LOL. however to answer your question yes , there has been an ahem explosion of Muslim porn starlets and Arab/Islamic themed porn by companies such as Brazzers etc.
Off-topic: Who is this anonymous account spamming you with porn in the name of looking for an online sexual partner? Have you traced the origin of such posts? They are starting to disturb the conversation here.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea. spammers get a hold of a blog every now and then. All one can do is report the site to google and keep the comments in the spam rather than delete.
DeleteYou can trace the IP of the poster, na? I suspect it is a captain fanboy attempting to hack your blog site as he cannot digest your criticism of the captain. The poster is as consistent as Amith Mishra.
DeleteIP address through blogspot is a big headache. Right now Id rather spam them. In time they disappear. I dont think this has anything do with captain. Though possibly some troll from indiachan.
DeleteI do not see the need to beat up on Indian "seculars" anymore. They are no longer a political force and are fast diminishing in number. As things stand today, Hindutva is the de facto ideology of India and BJP is the de facto ruler of all India and will remain so for the next decade at least. Interestingly Indian Muslims were divided over Hagia Sofia. While some of them welcomed it, some of them opposed it bitterly. That is more than what can be said about "seculars".
ReplyDeleteBut are not Russia and Turkey growing closer politically? Will Hagia Sofia hurt Russia-Turkey ties in any significant way? I do not think the Balkans are a force worth consideration of any sort: political, economic or military. They are mere puppets of China (thanks to BRI investments that have drowned them in debt) in the EU.
Fanatics will always face a steep downfall over insignificant issues. Porn is something women of all races and nationalities indulge in. That some people collapse over this says a lot about how brittle they really are.
What gripe do Indiachan trolls have with you? In what way did they ever hurt you? Can you please post some links to their forums where they discuss about you? If you do not wish to share it, you can refuse and ignore.
Thanks.
Oops...I meant to ask: In what way did you ever hurt them?
DeleteIts mostly the bhakts on Indiachan who have it in for me. The secular types are somewhat on my side and even if they arent, they rarely behave in an unhinged hyper emotional manner as the bhakts do. I think a lot of hysterical rantings of bhakts online is due to b12 deficiency caused by vegetarian diet. This affects men more than women. In mental asylums, the first thing the doctors do upon encountering lunatics(who more often than not suffer malnutrition) is to administer a b12 shot.
DeleteOne bhakt actually tried to set the police on me .Another couple of days wished to waterboard because he found my blog so objectionable lol.
I dont know why specifically what aggravates these types about me . If I were to guess its because I do puncture their hollow mythologies framed by Hindutva propaganda. If I recollect, that one guy who tried to set the police on me(even showed a screenshot of registering a complaint online) was upset that I stated that Guptas and Mauryas were not a centralized empire as such but a collection of nodal cities and tributary states over which they had periphrel control.
Also I mentioned subsequent lower caste dynasties such as Yadavas, Rashtrakutas and Chalukyas had comparable output in arts and sciences compared to Guptas.
Just as you have Western fanboys for Greece and Rome ,similarly you have Indian fanboys for Mauryas and Guptas , the so called "national" dynasties. Of course you have Chola , Chalukya etc fanboys online but they have no pretensions of being pan India dynasties ( though Chalukya and Rashtrakuta military achievements were more far reaching than Gupta and Mauryas). Just as with the 100 year chola chalukya wars, they now battle each other online lol.
Coming back to bhakts on Indiachan, these were maladjusted to begin with . Indiachan while is a net positive IMO, for these types only aggravates their situation. Now they are officially mentally ill.
So you eat meat.
DeleteIf someone does not eat meat or eggs, how does he start? How many days a week is eating meat safe for health? And what about eggs?
Sorry for asking but as a vegetarian willing to jump ship I would like to know.
Thanks.
" I think a lot of hysterical rantings of bhakts online is due to b12 deficiency caused by vegetarian diet. " --- Interesting hypothesis YSV, i have often wondered about that. However, there are groups in india who have been vegetarian for a long time like tamil brahmins, jains but these groups in my personal experience do not show the same hyper-triggered behavior . Probably, they have undergone through selection and may have higher % of B12 generating bacteria in their colon !! Most of the bhakts tend to be from the cow belt. I however agree that some degree of malnutrition may have a role in such behavior.
Delete"And what about eggs?" --- Bro,the eggs that people eat are unfertilized and thus they are 'vegetarian' food.
Tamil Brahmins actually go insane as they age. This is the sad truth about that community.
DeleteThank you for telling me about eggs. I was curious because I come from a vegetarian background and am willing to jump ship and start eating meat. I would like to know if eating meat everyday is good or whether there are a certain number of days one eats meat during the week.
@carcinogenist
DeleteWhat do you think about the kanda shashti controversy? It looks like DK and DMK have irritated a lot of people in TN?
@carcinogeist: One twitter tambram friend had mentioned that due to high endogamy in their community, many ppl are suffering from bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, OCD etc. Also if you remember one Iyer, who hijacked Elst's, & YSV's comments section, despite his high IQ has such mental health issues. Looks like any there is some association with high IQ & mental disorders. Also it could be that this community is genetically predisposed to such issues.
Delete@Anu , if endogamy is the probable cause of these disorders then i have got bad news for you and other indians. There are groups which have suffered from strong genetic bottleneck due to strict endogamy(far worse than tambrahms i would say. 'Dravidian' groups would be actually worse in this regard due to the prevalent practice of cross-cousin marriages). I remember one harvard geneticist, David Reich , talked about how an Andhra jaati, Vysya (they are probably a sub-group of chettiars) have much higher proportion of a mutation which makes them more susceptible to the effects of anaesthetic.
DeleteWe still haven't explored these issues in depth so we don't know which group is susceptible to which diseases !!
@Anu, you are also from south india, right ?
"Tamil Brahmins actually go insane as they age. This is the sad truth about that community.
" --- Lol, what !!!
"I was curious because I come from a vegetarian background and am willing to jump ship and start eating meat." ---- @carcinogeist,
You are a Saiva vellalar, right !! How are saiva vellalrs different from other vellalar groups ? Did your group indulge in priestly activities like the tam-brahms ?
"I would like to know if eating meat everyday is good or whether there are a certain number of days one eats meat during the week." --- I think this would vary from person to person. This would also be dependent on the environment a person is living in (someone living in an extremely hot climate might not have the same craving for meat as a person living in an extremely cold climate). Imo, Fish is probably the easiest digestible non-veg food. Most people basic needs can be met by eggs with occasional bouts of fish(or chicken) to be honest.
@tim: Yes, I'm from Karnataka - north, coastal area. Some 2 decades ago, cousin marriages were prevalent in our community either with maternal uncle's son/ daughter or paternal aunt's son/daughter. Marriages with maternal uncles like in lingayath community strictly prohibited. However these days such marriages are extremely rare.
DeleteSouth Indian genes must have been affected rather negatively due to all inter breeding. As I mentioned before that Hsuien Tsang noticed that poeple of Telangana were tall and muscular. Well muscular no more haha. And they started getting taller over the last 30 years or so due to better living standards and nutrition. Yes there may be undiagnosed mental problems. But seeking mental health counsel is considered taboo in our societies.
DeleteMy own aunt(mother sister) is married to her maternal uncle. Her children are not exactly paragons of health. I always found this to be deeply weird. My mother would often threaten my sister that she would marry him off to her brother if she would not perform well in school hahaha. That terrified the heck out of her and she is doing well thanks to these threats I suppose!
Anyway generally speaking those Telugus who are exposed to other cultures and study abroad view this as a sickness. Cousin marriages is not seen with as much revulsion but that too is on the decline.
Regarding diet and mental health. Jains are an intensely pragmatic people and dont really participate in any politics since the Rashtrakuta era which was the last Jain empire. They even lent support to Allaudin Khilji. Thats a very mercantile thing to do, placate whomever is in charge.
TamBrahms became a big deal actually under Marthanda Varma and then under British rule. Before that the Nayakas pretty much considered them riff raff. A far cry from Chola days when they were generals and advisors. Generally speaking TamBrahms while are often patriotic usually get riled up regarding caste and regional matters. They are often the Tamils online who abuse Kannadigas and Telugus though they dont care too much about SL Tamils.
I think apart diet, there is the aspect of emotional self control which is not taught to Indian children. If in a supermarket abroad I hear a child screeching and crying at the top of his/her lungs unchastised by the parents it is very likely to be an Indian. This is something I have observed repeatedly. There are others such as GCC and Africans who are notorious for this lax attitude. Generally Indian parents let their child scream and cry in public indifferent to the discomfort of others. And later on in life this transfers onto political discussions online and offline. I noticed that a lot of Indians take disagreements very personally as if you are attacking them personally. This cuts across all boundaries. But this tends to be worse in vegetarians.
Speaking of South Indian Brahmins they are rather lax in their dietary attitudes compared to north Indian Brahmins. Southern brahmins often consume eggs and many sneak in chicken unbeknown to their parents. This is inconceivable in the north.
Poor Vivek Iyer aka Windwheel. A couple of months, I enquired about his health as he is older and prone to developing serious complications from COVID. Though I did it in a colorful manner -"hey you old sick bastard, hope you are well in the midst of all this " or something to that effect. He was very polite and expressed his gratitude in response.
Delete@tim drake
DeleteSaiva Vellalar were the priestly community among SL Tamils. Brahmins not so much. Neither did they fulfill many administrative roles under British rule. Hence the Periyar style anti Brahmin Dravidian movement never had so much traction among SL Tamils.
Personalities such as Arumuka Navalvar had considerable impact on SL Tamils. A Swami Vivekananda type figure, he was rather familiar with Christianity, having translated the Bible into Tamil,and used to defend Hindus against Christian ideological attacks. As a result ,SL Tamil Catholicism is rather defanged and easily syncretized into their eclectic mode of Hinduism which involves hero worship irrespective of religious background of the figure.
Tamil padres in SL dont serve "The west" in the deranged imagination of Subramaniam Swamy and the like and fully committed to the Tamil cause and are involved in Tamil Hindu customs involving martyrdom and heroism propagated by the LTTE.
I wonder if apart from general lactose intolerance of south Indians, that their increased consumption of meat compared to rest of India is not just due to getting the requisite proteins and minerals which otherwise they are unable to efficiently process from dairy but because the nutrients are required to offset whatever health defects due to inbreeding.
DeleteLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL at Brat.
ReplyDeleteThat aside, is Karolina Goswami a Slavic woman? Her name sounds like that.
Will you be putting up a new post on this issue, i.e., Hindutvadis giving up Hinduism to Whites, particularly White women?
Is there any practical way for Indians to overcome this fetish? Or are we permanently stuck with it?
West arya ladies are gentle by disposition and very happy to be vegetaryan- similar genetics
ReplyDeleteBy the way AfPakHind can be very fair skin too.
@prabbh108 hahahahaha what??
DeleteHiiiiiiiiiiii Prabhnoor Rangiiiiiiii!
DeleteBack to speaking alien language I see! I have not been able to make head or tail of anything you post here. You post the most bizarre comments ever.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/Voice_For_India
another such example smh. When will Indians learn to make their own descisions
hahaha. Yet another one! Espousing the lame talking points as a Hindutvadi. Whether these are sincere or grifter thots is irrelevant. If Hindus in general had any self respect, these individuals while they would still exist would not recieve even a fraction of the attention they do now.
DeleteAfter going through her tweets, I suspect she is a grifter of some sort. Grifters generally dont offer any deep thought or genuine interest in the culture. Sincere but simple minded will still offer bromides however they are open to various different discussions taking place within Hindu culture. For example there were some intelligent Hindutvadis who were rather upset with Kerala beef culture ,however instead of abusing them they tried to prove their point from a historical and cultural perspective by introducing evidence from scripture and historical records of Kerala not being that conducive to cow killing.
DeleteThis woman not only doesnt know anything but is intellectually uncurious in the extreme. All she can talk about is how Bollywood is anti Hindu(thank you, i wasnt aware of that) and politics(apparently Modi is still the best, migrant workers may have a different opinion).
Koenraad Elst seems to have been a lotus among the marshes.
Also George Hart of UC Berkeley. He has seems to have dedicated his life to Tamil literature.
DeleteSimilarly Susan Bayly with Telugu history. But I suppose neither of these look hot in a swimsuit on instagram which is how Vedic agamic knowledge is measured these days.
Migrant workers still strongly support Modi. Check this out.
Deletehttps://thewire.in/politics/modi-bihar-elections
As for George Hart, yes, he spoke in the World Tamil Conference in Coimbatore back in 2010. He is married to Kausalya Hart. I do not know much about Susan Bayley though.
Kerala's history is different from its present and so is the rest of India. This is one problem with Indians. They keep living in the past even today. What happened back then offers us lessons for sure but trying to go back and live in the past will not work today. As time changes, our cultures and habits change along with it. It is time to move ahead and look towards the future. That is why Israel is a success story.
You said converting Hagia Sofia into a mosque deeply hurt the sentiments of Orthodox Christians in Russia and the Balkans.
ReplyDeleteI have a query: Will Hagia Sofia have a significant impact on Russia-Turkey ties? Last time I checked, both nations were getting closer politically. In 2016, Erdogan purged Turkey's military of all NATO leaning leaders and soldiers after the failed coup.
I personally believe Russia-Turkey ties will grow stronger in the future. Hagia Sofia will not have an impact on that. The Balkans are mere puppets of China in the EU so I do not think there will be any threat to Turkey from that front.
Off-topic:
ReplyDelete1. Which dictator of North Korea was the worst? Was it Kim Il-Sung, the founder, Kim Jong-Il, his son, or Kim Jong-Un, his grandson and current dictator?
2. You mentioned "$5 Cambodian hooker" in the Pankaj Mishra article. Are Cambodians voluntarily involved in prostitution, or are they being smuggled out and exploited?
3. Which country had/has the worst tyranny post-WWII? Is/was it:
a. North Korea under the Kim Dynasty
b. China under Mao Zedong
c. USSR under Stalin and beyond
d. Eritrea under Isaias Afwerki
e. Uganda under Idi Amin Dada
f. Iraq under Saddam Hussein
g. Iran under the Ayatollahs
h. Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe/Emmerson Mnangagwa
i. Haiti under François "Papa Doc" Duvalier
j. Kampuchea under Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge
k. Laos under Lao PRP
...or others I have missed out?
Most of these saw stability and some good governance. However I would nominate Cambodia under Pol/Pot for the sheer per capita numbers killed and the psychological horrors inflicted.
DeleteStalinist and Maoist regimes killed many but those were rather heavily populated who died not mostly due to mass executions but mismanagement.
Saddam Hussain was a relative blessing for Iraq until 1990 when he bit off more than he could chew and his ego did not let him come to an agreement with Western powers to relieve the sanctions. It is another thing the sanctions were incredibly cruel with 100s of thousands of children dying and the psychotic SecState Madeline Albright stating that it was worth it.
Haitian society is dysfunctional in the extreme, the government just reflects it. Idi Amin's excesses and cruelty dont really surpass most African dictators. He was more colorful than the rest which gained him media notoreity.
What Balkan countries are now doesnt matter. Even cowards turn to lions when they are pushed into a corner. It was said of Jaffna Tamils around the 1950s if they were even verbally abused, they would lift their mundu and flee rather than risk confrontation. Sinhala atrocities turned them into the LTTE.
DeleteIt doesnt matter that many are not terribly religious. Hagia Sophia and Orthodoxy is a deep part of their heritage, this will have destructive ripple effects.
Thank you for your replies.
DeleteI was just watching a documentary on Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier and I was shocked seeing his atrocities and fear tactics. He used Haitian voodoo to control his people when he lived. It was a nightmare indeed.
You are right about Idi Amin Dada. There are other African dictators who are as bad as him if not worse. Liberia comes to mind. There are also Equatorial Guinea and Angola.
Thank you again.
Off topic: I am interested in reading Mahabharata. Which is the best book to start with for a person who does not know Sanskrit?
ReplyDeleteRajagopalachari's translation is pretty good. Though I prefer his Ramayana better. But I prefer Valmik's Ramayana in general as it is a very lean and very fast paced epic , almost like a thriller. Valmiki captures Rama's frustration and his very human side when he is despondent upon Sita's dissapearance and like Poirot or Holmes tries to piece together clues as to what happened to her. He also captured the subdued angst and a sense of foreboding doom from the POV of Lanka residents when Hanuman entered it with his left foot in order to ensure an inauspicious fate for them. A lot of it is incredibly dark. But popular culture which seems to wish to turn our epics into disneyesque fantasies are incapable of appreciating their true nature.
Deletebased ysv
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteCaptain is a great guy
DeleteWe (I, ysv and Captain) are based redpilled CHADs.
Ok ok so it is a new term. I am not aware of or keep track of new terms so I got confused when I first heard based. Sorry!
DeleteCome on indiachan and we will make you based.
DeleteThank you for your invitation but I am not interested in coming to Indiachan for now because I am afraid that, instead of becoming based, I may become toast.
Delete@ysv
DeleteThanks for the recommendations.
"But popular culture which seems to wish to turn our epics into disneyesque fantasies are incapable of appreciating their true nature"-- True. I have heard a Telugu commentary where the person mentions that Rama ate meat during his Vanavasam (do not know how true it is). I think this would be completely unacceptable in North.
While I have heard Ramayana a lot in TV commentary, I keep hearing Krishna is better suited for this age. Hence, wanted to read Mahabharata.
@Siva People like Vadakayil who are very part of the establishment wish you to be vegetarian and easily controlled and hence in his fantasy version of the Ramayana, Sita wanted the deer as a pet ,not for its skin. It follows that if Rama is willing to skin alive a dead deer, eating its meat is not a big deal. However one of the conditions of his vanavas as I remember is that he should curb his meat intake and lead a simple life.
DeleteKrishna also ate meat and was frequently drunk. So much so that Balarama worried about the security of their kingdom which was invaded by Yavanas(likely Babylonians or Assyrians). One of their generals was burnt alive by a sage from Andhra named Muchukunda.
Rajamouli mentioned that while people stated they admired Krishna and wished to follow his example, they would never tolerate any abuse of Rama as they would Krishna. Because they understand that Krishna was a flexible and a somewhat flawed character compared to the principled Rama. Even as his principles often lead to disaster.
@ A follower
DeleteI request you not to place me in the same category of that disgusting coward ,women repellant and cow urine fetishist Vadakayil.
Thank you.
@carcinogest
Delete4chan and Indiachan perform useful roles but there are many regressive and toxic characters with mental health issues. What else would possess these weirdos to report me to the authorities because I criticized the Gupta empire? hahahaha. That was so surreal. I never imagined such crybabies existed in real life. Now I know.
I am not too active these days on any social media platform. It is another matter that I am notorious for forgetting my passwords. This is why I prefer not to enroll in either 4chan or Indiachan for the time being. Maybe sometime later when I get sometime and am ready for it.
DeleteI am surprised they reported you to the cops for criticizing the Guptas. But then Guptas and Mauryas were legends. I am not aware of what is there to criticize them for (I am poor at history after all). They created vast and strong empires when they lived and defeated all foreign invaders.
Hey man ysv it was only one butthurt guy who threatned to report and i am sure he was bluffing to scare you and make you leave indiachan. Rest of the userd called him stupid for even thinking of that.
DeleteGuptas and Mauryas did defeat foreign invaders though Guptas were ultimately unsuccesful against the Huns.Yashodharman of Aulikara dynasty was more successful in that regard.
DeleteThey werent really centralized empires at all. But a collection of loosely controlled tributary states and nodal cities. Maurya collapsed a generation after the death of Ashoka. Similarly Guptas werent really a major force after Skandagupta.
Hey ysv I needed your opinion on meat eating and animal sacrifice. I was thinking of reviving practice of animal sacrifice. So how are hindus supposed to sacrifice animals? Do i have to contact a local pandit or tantrik? Or is there a chanting that i can recite before beheading the animal? Like how in islam anyone can sacrifice goats by reciting kalmah is it same in hinduism? How did people from vedic period perform sacrifice?
Delete@follower
DeleteActually there were a couple who coordinated the police report. There was a few cheering them on. And yes there were many who told them to cut it out. But I wonder about the silent majority and whose side they were on. If you recollect, for that entire thread, pretty much everyone was against my views or me personally .
@ a follower
DeleteThe best beginning is Dussehra. Navaratri fast has to be broken with eating meat. There are many buffalo sacrifices in Telangan, Mysore ,Bihar and Bengal. I think in HP as well.
The pandits there will lead you the right way.
But i don't live in those states. Well thanks anyway. I wish things were simple like Islam. Do you think Animal sacrifice could be the reason muslim became successful in military conquests?
Delete
Delete"But i don't live in those states. Well thanks anyway. I wish things were simple like Islam. Do you think Animal sacrifice could be the reason muslim became successful in military conquests?"
I believe there were many pundits in Bengal who thought so. And that Hindus had become very squeamish and hence they wanted to reintroduce animal sacrifices.
I am in two minds about this . Yes meat eating people can be more physically resilient and perform well militarily. However those who are lactose tolerant and consume lot of dairy can be physically fit without a carnivorous diet such as the Jats. Though I think they turned vegetarian only a couple of generations ago. Punjab which introduced all those wonderful chicken dishes to India is now mostly vegetarian.
And vegetarians can be quite aggressive though for males there is a testosterone deficit and this aggression translates into emotional outbursts than anything useful for military purposes.
Which state do you live in btw?
I am from rajasthan. I think hindus are becoming more empathetic and non-violent in contrast to their abrahmic counterparts. Even my 6ft well built oldschool Gramps from village has stopped eating meat and has a picture of a sikh baba in his room.
DeleteBut do you think Animal sacrifice is morally right and should be revived? Apart from psychological benefits i think all the gods may like that, don't you think? If i have to give a spiritial reason for decline of hindus then it has to be that hindus stopped doing sacrifices for their gods. Bit i maybe wrong so i cannot preach this in public.
In southern India animal sacrifices have not receeded. BJP despite its influence in Karnataka has not been able to curb this custom.
DeleteIt is better to eat meat from an animal you killed yourself than from the grocery store, then you are more connected to nature and its realities. NOt to mention it is much healthier. Of course that is not always possible.
The decline of Hinduism is not particularly due to decline of sacrifices but lack of understanding of the dieties and what they mean. This probably started when dieties started becoming distant from the masses due to bhakti and prevalence of large temples.
While bhakti is credited with creating verses in vernacular languages for the benefit of the masses, it simultaneously made the gods distant and the worshipper a passive recipient of their favors instead of an active agent. Bhakti and Abrahamic religions are very similar in this regard. Anyway thats another topic altogether
Yeah bhakti is gay.
DeleteI will not deride bhakti as gay. However I believe Hindus need to start actively seeking God's favors via Tantra, animal sacrifices and other practices that existed in the past.
DeleteToo bad I do not have enough time to start practicing Tantra.
"start actively seeking God's favors"
Deletethat is a very Abrahamic thing to say. thats not how Hinduism is supposed to work. Ditch the Capital g for god. and instead of "Favor" use "boon" or better yet- manifestation.
"Though I think they turned vegetarian only a couple of generations ago." --- The haryanvi jats have been vegetarian for much longer time afaik. Not just the jats but even lacto-vegetarian tribes of south like the todas were/are tall and well-built.
DeletePastoralism and subsequent dairying culture is probably one of the best things that happened to humanity imo.
Did a quick read up on Jat customs and habits- I should have realized their customs vary by region. So in Punjab they do eat meat but not so much in Rajashtan and UP. In Pakistan of course they do since they are all Muslim. Sikh Jats tend to be more meat eaters than Hindu Jats.
DeleteBut by and large they did eat meat but those who are now vegetarian gave it up gradually over the last 40 years or so due to various sectarian allegiances.
Todas are sturdy but rather pacific. They occasionally eat fist. Truly a unique and fascinating culture.
Animal sacrifices could be one reason helping military conquest in the past. In the current military scenarios it can hardly be helpful as it is mostly with guns. I have read that during world war 2 most of the American soldiers were shooting just in the direction of the enemy and not at the enemy itself. Americans even after consuming meat were hesitant to fight.
DeleteIt is the mindset that matters where the invaders were and are indoctrinated with Jihad. Similarly, Germans were indoctrinated with racial superiority.
Hindus in the past made animal sacrifices but it hardly helped. It was and still is our lack of proper leadership and military thinking that made us loose.
We need to ditch our chivalrous Kshatriya code of conduct to a more aggressive one.
We need to forget all Geneva conventions while fighting any Islamic country.
"I have read that during world war 2 most of the American soldiers were shooting just in the direction of the enemy and not at the enemy itself. Americans even after consuming meat were hesitant to fight."
DeleteDuring WWII , most soldiers were drafted i.e civilians with normal jobs such as accountants, engineers, teachers etc. These were guys not accustomed to combat, it took a couple of years to harden them.
Those during Iraq and Afghanistan were professional soldiers while Iraq was actually pacified by 2008, it didnt do much good in Afghanistan as they are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs. Not due to any great Pushtun abilities LOL. I know American veterans who served there and they dont hold them in high regard.
Countries whose militaries lack proper cohesion and morale will not perform well. I include India in this category. No matter how many fancy planes,tanks,carriers and other equipment India buys as long as the military culture and cohesion is lacking thanks to poor vision from the leadership, there will be no successful military endevours. Pipsqueak cross border raids dont count. And even these often are not managed properly.
DeleteIndia has never been in a position for mass mobilization of its resources to fight wars in distant lands like U.S , USSR and Nazi Germany have done (I dont include UK as it relied overwhelmingly on foreign troops) . It has never had its logistic supply line and military resolve truly tested.
The only adventure I can think is Maldives when a handful of Tamil militants took over the island which was liberated by India in less than a day.
It is comical that bhakts claim India is a super power but India cant even freely bomb targets in Pakistan which U.S manages to even as it is 1000s of miles away. And they offer all sorts of excuses such as Pakistan having nukes(whose idea was for India to have nukes in the first place???) and U.S wont allow it (hahahahaha what type of shit superpower needs permission from another country to defend its own national security). Indira Gandhi whatever her numerous flaws simply told Nixon to go stuff it and she did as she pleased. No BJP leader has the balls she had. This is a bitter pill for Hindutvadis to swallow.
Well to be fair, I think Indira Gandhi had the Soviets on her side. The SOviets sent a submarine to the Indian ocean to let Nixon know that the US would have to deal with the Soviets if they tried to attack India
DeleteAnd the reason I call out India's special forces specifically is that special forces portray a country's fighting core stripped of all the baggage. Since they are the elite and unlike the army they have neither numbers nor a large logistical supply train to hide whatever weaknesses they may have. Its out there. Here is a mission, do it within this short time frame. Pass or fail. No fighting for months and years and ever shifting goal posts.
DeleteThat is the true test of cohesion ,killer instincts, hyper awareness ,attention to detail as well as many other things that Indians are lacking. I mentioned in another post that most Indians cant even walk properly as they seem to be day dreaming and keep bumping into people as they are not aware of their sorroundings.
I have not seen this with Pushtuns, Balochs, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans(both Tamil and Sinhala)
Tamil and Sinhalas performed well in their civil conflict due to their cohesion and their sense of hyper alertness which borders on mania.
Other people who had this were British forces in Northern Ireland, Colombian special forces, Jordanians, Hamas(not West Bank Pals) and Israelis.
The problem is that India is too large and cumbersome to manage and this affects cohesion and awareness.
@Prem Chand
DeleteYes I doubt Nixon would carried out any action against India since he had his hands full with Vietnam which was already an unpopular war. The cold war participation in hot conflicts was usually kabuki theater. Neither side wanted to get too involved.
And now I seriously doubt Americans will care too much even if Pakistan is annihilated by India. There is really nothing stopping India from taking out Pakistan at this stage.
Sometimes I wonder if RAW's actual mission is to keep Pakistan afloat and ISI wishes to keep India intact . Much of Pakistan and Indias unity is based on national security threats. And if these disapepar the establishment may worry about dissolution of the union.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqvM5WUKvM0
DeleteLook at this terrible rescue attempt at Nariman chabad during the Nov 2008 terrorist attack. What an utter embarassment. Everything reeks of amateur hour
Let us leave aside for now the cheesy background music.
"It has never had its logistic supply line and military resolve truly tested" -- to a great extent logistical chain of Indian army stretches to some factory in Ural mountains. This will be a big constraint during all out war.
DeleteIndia army persons who man the Staff qualitative requirement department are fools. They just copy paste best stuff from all brochures and put up a requirement. Last time INSAS rifle was designed they gave a requirement that it should be handy for drills and marches. I could not imagine how a modern rile design can have such a requirement. They could have used older rifles for Republic day marches.
If we want to be militarily strong we need to emphasize on indigenous production of weapons.
"And the reason I call out India's special forces specifically is that special forces portray a country's fighting core stripped of all the baggage" -- Greyhounds of Andhra are far better than Indian army SF at least in tactics not sure of the equipment.
As for the killer instincts, it will come once we stop believing in Ahimsa bullshit. We also need to emphasize more on sports like football and rugby than Cricket. Cricket is an egoistical game and does not promote cohesion.
I am not sure how much killer instinct do Pushtuns hvae but they were able to do guerilla warfare only because of an open border with Pakistan through which they were able to smuggle weapons from Pakistan. Pushtuns today blabber on about how they are unconquerable in guerilla warfare which is bullshit in my opinion. But they have to be appreciated for their resolve.
I always maintained that the police and particularly STF of individual states such as GreyHounds were very underrated and are very effective.
DeletePushtuns like most mountain people mistrust foreigners and that is the basis of their resolve these days. But historically they were under foreign rule.
What frustrated super powers such as Britain and USSR in Afghanistan was their lack of preparation for the harsh terrain and knowledge of the customs and potential allies. This something the Mughals and Turks knew instinctively.
cricket is meant for upper class Englishmen on a pleasant summer day(their summer) at a leisurely pace. It reflects their repressed customs ( no contact) and sense of good sport over athletic ability.
DeleteIndia with its rich history of contact sports such as wrestling and other martial arts is poorly positioned for cricket . I could never get into this game which is yet another reason I am a misfit in India. Tennis and squash are other sports where Indians have made a mark. These are still dominated by Brahmins perhaps due to Brahmin distaste for physical contact as well haha
Sri Lanka seems to have good rugby team.
The recent scuffle between Indians and Chinese shows Indians coming out on top. This has nothing to do with any military doctrine or tactics,logistics, weapons training but pure show of physical resilience fuelled by patriotism and adrenaline. In such small scale encounters minus any interference from the top, it is not surprising at all the jawans prevailed. Jai Hind.
DeleteOur men and women are always brave and face adversaries head on. There is no doubt that the Indian Army is among the best in the world. Our soldiers are braver and more resilient than PLA and US Army soldiers. However there are other factors that contribute to the chaos in the Indian defense forces.
DeleteI have become a fan of rugby. My most favorite team is obviously Australia. But I also like South Africa (which won the Rugby World Cup last year) and New Zealand (which has the most number of titles to its name). England and Ireland are other amazing teams. Japan shocked the world last year when they defeated Ireland but they eventually lost in the knockout stage to South Africa.
This fucker from Kuwait is constantly interfering in India's internal affairs.
ReplyDeletetwitter.com/mjalshrika
He is now saying Babri Masjid is like Masjid Al Aqsa and threatening dire consequences if India "illegally" builds a temple for Lord Ram in Ram Janmabhoomi!
He has been needling India for quite sometime now. Ever since Sanghis got caught slandering Islam months ago, he has been continuously talking about India. He is going as far as meddling in the internal affairs of another country!
Will he dare talk about China's cultural genocide against Uighur Muslims?
The sad reality for Indian Muslims is that most Arab Muslims barely consider them Muslims at all. And while they object to mosques being destroyed in India and other places, they really dont care all that much. Never mind comparing Babri to Al Aqsa hahahah.
DeleteBabri Masjids importance is not its stature as a mosque . Most Muslims across India outside UP were barely aware of such as mosque. It is not like Delhi or Hyderabad's Jama Masjid which historically a symbol of Muslim power and prestige. It is specifically given its stature in Muslim and secular imagination in order to snub Hindus.
I see.
DeleteBut still it hurts because no one was even looking this way. BJP/RSS and their supporters went overboard and brought all the unwanted attention towards themselves and India.
It is paving the way for foreign meddling in India's internal affairs. This is not a good thing.
BJP is an utter incompetent at both diplomacy ,PR and executing policy. What need was there to announce the citizenship act exactly? Just as much need to announce that India was a nuclear power. i.e zero.
DeleteThey could have quietly replaced everyone in charge of processing immigration applications with Hindutvadis and they would instinctively deny foreign Muslims or Christians residency in India. And of course this would no be stated explicitly but winked at by the higher ups.
It is pitiful that Israel of all countries probably has better relations with GCC countries than India does currently. Because Israeli state department and politicians despite their shameless corruption know how the game is played and realize what is to be done.
BJP /RSS are a bunch of inward looking hicks lacking a coherent vision and resolve who dont know how to deal with highly intelligent and manipulative people on the world stage.
And that will be India's doom.
DeleteBJP manage to bungle horribly and bring about all the unwanted attention towards themselves. Sure it works superbly for winning elections. Any attention is good attention if you are contesting an election. How will that work elsewhere?
Israelis are pragmatic. When Ayatollah Khomeini captured Iran in 1979, Israel back then fell back on Turkey and started reaching out to the Arabs. For decades, they built clandestine but solid relations with Arabs. They had the enduring support of America. They also brought USSR closer for good measure. Even today, they maintain decent relations with Russia. Also Israeli scientists are highly innovative and water engineering has come to Israel's rescue. What does India have to offer in comparison?
It takes more than merely whataboutism and imitation to indulge in certain activities without straining relationships. Sadly BJP's attempts at "If others can do it, I will also do it." are backfiring spectacularly and hurting India.
@Prem Chand
ReplyDeleteThat video generated a lot of rage for sure but the people behind it were not linked to DK/DMK. They posted the video somewhere in January on their own volition. BJP with its usual dirty propaganda tricks tried to blame DMK for it but a few days later DK leader K Veeramani and DMK's main office both issued strong condemnations for the video. Not just them, popular Dravidian intellectuals also condemned them and washed their hands off the issue.
After everyone condemned the video, the issue died down and the focus shifted elsewhere.
Also the guy who posted that video was exposed as a grifter. He supported Modi in 2014, Vijayakanth in 2016 and DMK in 2019. Basically a star chaser who likes to end up on the winning side. He is now paying the price and no one cares anymore.
BJP's propaganda machine is the best in the world, even Putin must learn from them. However they already overplayed their hands way too much in the past by doing things like posting objectionable content and photoshopping Stalin's name on it. They have been at it since at least 2017-18. They did the same with this issue and blew off their own covers. It is because unlike the Karunanidhi years where anyone can slander DMK and get away with it, these days, RS Bharathi is promptly filing complaints with the police and threatening to sue miscreants for slander. RSS/BJP fans and leaders then bend over with a groveling apology (like they always do) and expose themselves for everyone to see.
You are 2 weeks late. That issue is long dead. And with DMK successfully winning in court the right of OBC students to get reservation in MBBS, which BJP tried to stop, BJP once again lost the narrative. Plus BJP leaders have been engaging in extremely aggressive behavior in recent days. The ABVP leader of Tamilnadu urinated in front of a 62-year-old widow's house due to a spat over a parking lot. One BJP goon kept threatening people randomly. And many more. BJP basically shot itself in both its feet.
As always, it was the volunteers who did the work for DMK. DMK's IT vell is useless.
Anu is absolutely right in her assessment about Tamil Brahmins.
DeleteTim Drake: Thank you for telling me about meat.
Yes I belong to that community but we were mostly scholars or small farmers. Velanmai is a term used to describe farming. Saiva Vellalars were small farmers too. They were also scholars, so in that sense, they were farming Shaivism for everyone. We were never priests though.
Anu: Sadly enough, cousin marriages are still the norm in many parts of my state. My own distant relatives have indulged in cousin marriages. Inbreeding is a huge problem. I am glad your community has left such practices behind.
DeleteTim Drake: How is Bihar man? There were floods there recently. Almost 5 million people have been affected it seems. What about your family members?
I didnt see the video so I cant comment. Is it really offensive? Or a gentle ribbing at their expense. FOr example Murugan is supposed to a sort of Adonis, perhaps they were speaking of his considerable sexual prowess in a graphic manner. I dont see the problem if thats the problem. I remember Telugu magazines depicting a lot of cartoons involving gods.
Delete@ysv
DeleteOf course as an atheist I don't care all that much. This video is just one example of the long DK history of abusing and denigrating Hinduism (but not any other religion) like adorning a portrait of Rama with a garland of slippers, forcibly cutting Brahmins' sacred thread etc.
The public lost their patience when the Periyarists began throwing their filth at Lord Murugan. Yes that video is quite offensive and deliberately so.
I see carcinogenist cleverly pre-empted the point i was about to make about one of the creators of the video being a DMK IT wing worker. How carcino manages to be a Hindu and a DMK worker at the same time puzzles me.
Oops I meant carcino is a dmk supporter
DeleteAs I understanding abusing Rama and harassing Brahmins is one thing but denigrating Murugan is another. As the former represents "Aryan" cultural hegemony and the latter is a native Dravidian diety. There was a conflict from day 1 in the Dravidian movement between rationalism and abusing mainstream Hindu gods such as Rama but trying not to aggravate the feelings of those devoted to Murugan,Venkateswara, Shiva Alvar,Nayanars etc.
DeleteI cant speak for Carcinogest but this type of behavior is not uncommon. You have many American Jews and Catholics who are dedicated Democrats despite many of the party leaders open contempt for their beliefs. Political affiliation is often a very deep part of an individuals identity and many compartmentalize their religious and political identity. It requires a sort of double think and double speak but its done. I personally dont quite subscribe to any ideology or party for this reason. I agree with many of Republican party's tenents, they welcome me but I do know that while they may tolerate in small doses non white immigrants such as myself, they dont care that much for Hindu beliefs as much of the party is evangelical CHristian. (they will embrace you very fondly if you convert ala Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley).Hence I state my beliefs openly and state my beliefs in support of paganism when some Christian nut starts bashing polytheistic religions. Generally most people are civil enough to live and let live. But I dont see a rosy future ahead with evangelicals at the helm. Hence I distance myself from this wing of the party emotionally even as they are useful as ideological allies.
The world is complicated and people have to make odd alliances to get ahead.
I am very individualist and eclectic and as stated I-my viewpoints are independent of any orthodoxy and hence I can embrace contradictions on some level for reasons mentioned.
I dont know about carcinogiest.
"That issue is long dead. And with DMK successfully winning in court the right of OBC students to get reservation in MBBS, which BJP tried to stop," ----
DeleteAah, so this is the propaganda that DMK is spewing these days and making chutiy**as out of uniformed tamil people.
First, a little bit of background on allotment of medical seats. There are two ways through which MBBS and PG seats are filled.
(i) Counselling via AIQ (All India quota). Under All india quota, one can get seats either in
(a) Central govt. institutions like AIIMS, PGIMER
(b) State govt. run colleges. Since central govt. institutions are very few , state govt run colleges give away a few seats to AIQ.
(ii) State quota . Here, rest of the state govt. run colleges are filled.
Now, in MBBS 15% of seats are filled through AIQ while in PG 50% of seats are filled through AIQ.
OBCs have reservation in (i) (a) and (ii) but they don't have reservation in (i)(b) . And this reservation didn't even exist when the UPA govt was in power so this has nothing to do with NEET or BJP/RSS.
Btw,BJP govt. didn't stop anything. Afaik, the counter affadavit in court was filed by the central govt where they stated their position.
https://realitycheck.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/common_counter_affidavit_of_r_4_in__w_p_no__8326_of_2020__8324_of_2020___batch_.pdf
"How is Bihar man? There were floods there recently. Almost 5 million people have been affected it seems. What about your family members?" --- The floods are mostly in north bihar. My family lives in Patna where there are no flood issues.
DeleteI absolutely agree with what Rao said. However I will elaborate.
DeleteThat video seems to be missing.
This tweet was what I was talking about:
https://twitter.com/muthupandibtl1/status/1283736327960145920
This Senthilvasan guy basically hops on to the winning side. As for that lone DMK IT wing worker behind the video, well DMK continues its poor legacy of letting its workers run loose. You remember the rowdyism that happened under Karunanidhi's son Alagiri in Madurai? In many instances, during the Karunanidhi years, DMK's district heads had turned into mini dictators. This has transitioned into the digital world.
No one else in DMK/DK, or others who believe in the Dravidian ideology, supported them. DMK is not like BJP or AIADMK (until Jayalalithaa) with a strong unified leadership where everyone toes the line and marches in unison (which is a big advantage for both parties). DMK like Congress has many loose ends running left and right. That offensive video is yet another instance of one of DMK's loose ends.
It is another matter that DMK spent a lot of money and did service to thousands of Hindu temples when they were in power. Okay, how many such temples has BJP served in all the states they ruled? This is one in many reasons to be a Hindu and a DMK supporter. Since Prem Chand is Tamil, please read this:
https://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?id=196768
Anyways, the public in that state have largely kept DMK out of power for several decades. Since 1976, DMK ruled only for 12 years (1989-91, 1996-2001, 2006-11). The remaining 30+ years, Tamilnadu was ruled by AIADMK. It is not like Periyarists were ruling continuously for the past 5 decades. Tamils in general never had the patience for Periyarists since at least the MGR years.
I support DMK not so much due to ideology but because they are the only people who work. If tomorrow, someone else does better work, I will not think twice before supporting them. The day DMK stop working, my support for them will stop. If BJP starts doing good work, I will support them with no hesitation.
Ever since they were voted out in 2011, Tamilnadu has been going down the drain. There is nothing left there now. Unemployment is at an all time high - water supplies are dwindling and unsanitary - violent crime is rising by the day - debts have spiraled out of control - administration has all but collapsed. Within a decade, it has gone from glowing prosperity to a ghetto from hell.
Comparing DMK and America's Democrats is not right. DMK does not believe in burning down Tamilnadu if they cannot win. They will just continue to sit in the opposition and highlight issues facing the state whether or not people will ever elect them back to power. Contrast that to the loons who are burning down America at the behest of the Democrats.
BJP has been making chutiyas out of Indians since 2014. I do not think anyone else can match them for a long time to come! Can anyone show me ONE good thing BJP has done properly since 2014? It is amazing that there are morons who still believe India will become a superpower with Modi at the helm!
DeleteFirst things first: NEET was originally proposed as CET by Congress in 2009-10 but DMK opposed it from Day 1 in the name of federalism. It was enforced only after 2015. OBCs lost All India Quota seats to the general category thanks to NEET.
Before 2017, Tamil students from poor backgrounds could directly enroll in state colleges in Tamilnadu after passing high school with high scores without having to write exams like NEET. Today that is not possible since NEET requires students to go to separate coaching classes in order for them to stand a chance.
Anyways, the central govt had no role in building any of Tamilnadu's state colleges. Why should they decide for that state when they contributed nothing to them?
DMK is a direct descendant of Periyarism. If DMK is pro hindu, Will they disavow Periyar ?
DeleteYes the dmk it wing is not under tight control of the party. That's why they sent out a tweet wishing hindus on Ganesh chathurthi. Stalin was quick to reprimand them and withdrew the tweet. Very pro Hindu indeed. Meanwhile they have no problem donning a cap and attending an Iftar party.
I think Periyar pushed for Islam and Christianity on the basis that they were egalitarian. Even though there is very much a pecking order there as well. Hence this type of nonsense "secularism" and "Rationalism" praising these religions and participating in their customs while deriding Hinduism.
DeleteI never said DMK were not Periyarists. I said DMK did a lot for Hindu temples when they ruled. Here is but one example:
Deletehttps://www.hindustantimes.com/india/palani-temple-prasadam-goes-high-tech/story-I7hgB1h5vCXmwYZkm2YphO.html
That actually helped mass production and everyone far and wide could get Palani Panchamirtham. Karunanidhi was CM from 2006 to 2011 and the news article is from 2008. There is a lot more of such services the DMK govt has done for Hindus, Hindu temples and Hinduism.
Sure, DMK leaders do utterly stupid things like not wishing Hindus on auspicious occasions, which is of course irritating, but what they do behind the scenes is something almost everybody likes to ignore even when brought to the forefront. Why is that again?
Not just that DMK IT wing guy who wished on Ganesh Chaturthi. The DMK office also released an official statement condemning the video. Did you miss that?
To defend Periyar somewhat he did notice something astute when addressing the Pariayar caste and the issue of "Sanskritization" (adjusting diet and lifestyle to become respectable).
DeleteHe noticed that in order to climb up the caste ladder they had to give up beef and alcohol even as the world is being ruled by people consuming beef and alcohol!
He saw the absurdity and inherent contradiction of "sanskritization" - yes one despised caste can give up their "bad habits" and climb up the ladder but then someone else will have to do the same work with the same habits and now the cycle starts anew.
Would it not be better not to demonize people with different sub cultures altogether. This is also ties in with dignity of labor.
Plumbers, electricians,carpenters and sewage workers make an average of $80,000 a year in developed countries. Best to consider why that is?
In the Sangam era, labor was so scarce that Tamils would import Yavanas (Greeks) to work on their construction projects. Nowadays SL Tamils die on the shores of Greece trying to get to Europe due to lack of opportunities in their country.
"NEET was originally proposed as CET by Congress in 2009-10 but DMK opposed it from Day 1 in the name of federalism. It was enforced only after 2015. OBCs lost All India Quota seats to the general category thanks to NEET." ---- Lol, they didn't lose it due to NEET. As i said , seats alloted in state govt. surrendered seats under AIQ never had any OBC quota (central govt. institutions did have OBC quota ) . This thing used to happen even back in AIPMT exams. DMK was probably never aware of this lol and now, they have to blame someone .
DeleteAs for losing seats to "General Category" , well, the General category seats are actually "open/UR(unreserved)". OBCs candidates securing marks beyond the UR cut-off do get selected in the UR (every years MCC publishes seat allotment list on its website where we have both the information , category from which a candidate applied and category and category in which he/she got selected) .
Btw, re OBC list, why are so many dominant landowning groups in TN in OBC category ?
"Anyways, the central govt had no role in building any of Tamilnadu's state colleges.
DeleteWhy should they decide for that state when they contributed nothing to them?" ----
They should not. Tamil Nadu can opt out of NEET and get the seats back it surrendered under AIQ . They can conduct their own exams for their state govt. colleges.
"why are so many dominant landowning groups in TN in OBC category ?"
DeleteSame reason landowning Jats, Patels ,Kapus and others want OBC/BC status. Even Modi's caste was once a forward caste.
Of course they have to condemn the video. Otherwise they would have no prayer of winning the elections next year. But their core ideology is Periyarism and its anti-Hindu stance(anti-Brahmanism as they would put it). What this controversy has done is to expose this anti-Hinduism .
Delete"Same reason landowning Jats, Patels, Kapus and others want OBC/BC status " --- This doesn't answer my question. For all we know, these North indian landowning groups want OBC status after finding out TN's dominant landowning groups in OBC.
DeleteRe Jats, jats of rajasthan(except in two districts ) are in OBC (they became OBC in 98-1999 even though Mandal commission report kept them out of OBC). It's the jats of haryana, delhi region who want OBC status like their rajasthani brothers lol.
"Even Modi's caste was once a forward caste." --- Technically, modi's jaati ancestral occupation was similar to telis of eastern and northern india(That's why he is considered a teli) and telis have been OBC in nearly every state since Mandal, so it was a matter a time before ghanchi of gujarat(telis) would have become OBC.
"This doesn't answer my question. For all we know, these North indian landowning groups want OBC status after finding out TN's dominant landowning groups in OBC."
DeleteThe answer is obvious- people like government reservations and handouts. I dont know who went the OBC route first but doesnt VP Singh have a lot to do with it in north India?
VP Singh has absolutely everything to do with it, not a lot. And yes, he was a close friend of Karunanidhi and DMK leaders, workers and supporters fondly remember him to this day.
DeleteBut there could be one reason: Not everyone from those dominant landowning groups actually held land. Many of them were landless laborers and treated no differently from Dalits despite belonging to the same castes of landowners. So the OBC category was created and those castes got the benefits of reservations.
Is there anyway Indians will stop drooling over whites especially women?
ReplyDeleteWhat can be done to stop this abomination? I am sure it needs to be taught to young children but what about those who have become adults?
Check this out:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Voice_For_India/status/1289024015986810881
What has Hindu heritage and past Hindu holocausts got to do with Trump? I know Biden is unfit for office but still what is this?
Someone kill me already!
May be its about the common problem both countries face: leftism. Trump seems to be doing something about it. Who does India have?
DeleteThe problem with the left in U.S is very very severe. Not just deplatforming from social media but leftists even wish (and are often successful) to deny those of "wrongthink" of having bank accounts ,never mind access to patreon and gofundme. Corporations grovel to the left and whatever weird agenda dujour. This is not the situation in India. The left are content (for now) in their cultural spheres(such as Bollywood,media and academia) and dont seem to wish to intrude in other arenas. But one never knows with them.
DeleteModi is completely ineffectual at countering the left. Because his tools are positively medieval compared to what they are capable of. His bhakts are often more astute and understand the potential catastrophe that may ensue and hence their use of social media and memes even as they indulge in overkill.
Only recently has the American Right has caught up to the left in propaganda wars but thats mostly because the left became fat and lazy due to their cushy positions in Hollywood ,universities and media.
With the social credit system in China which prohibits people from flying, travelling on a train based on their behaviors, is it really inconceivable that a Biden administration with the help of the tech oligopolies may seek this on political undesirables? India thankfully is very far away from this dystopia if only due to poor infrastructure to execute such schemes.
DeleteThe Left wing in India are not so much a threat as they are an irritant. They are not a shred as malicious as American or European Leftists. They can be easily toppled, and India proved it since 2014. Leftists in India are nothing more than a bunch of clowns with no support anywhere.
DeleteIs Biden really capable of creating a Chinese style social credit system in America? He does not even remember the name of China's President Xi Jinping and says he met with Deng Xiaoping!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Prem Chand:
ReplyDelete/What this controversy has done is to expose this anti-Hinduism ./
This is something everybody in Tamilnadu knows since at least the 1970s. DMK's outward anti-Hinduism is well-known even to small children far away from that state.
What's NOT known and is being increasingly known is DMK's silent services and support for Hinduism and Hindus. Of course, it would aid AIADMK/BJP if people didn't know about this at all but sadly that is not going to last for long.
By the way, back in 1971, Karunanidhi raised a concrete wall in the famous Murugan temple at Tiruchendur which was regularly being hit by the Indian Ocean. Rajaji did not do it. Kamaraj did not do it. MGR did not do it. Karunanidhi did it and it protected the temple property from the unforgiving waves of the Indian Ocean. Are you aware of this?
I presume you know to read and write Tamil. Check this out. See the image at the middle of the post.
https://ramaniecuvellore.blogspot.com/2020/07/blog-post_98.html
Now why would a purportedly "anti-Hindu" party like DMK do so much for Hindu temples? The answer is simple: Periyarism is actually dead. The last most prominent anti-Hindu of Tamilnadu was Periyar. After him, no one else continued that legacy. Anti-Hinduism went with Periyar to his grave.
Tim Drake:
DeleteAre you aware that the central govt actually REFUSED to offer exemption for Tamilnadu and Puducherry re: NEET?
https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/centre-says-no-to-tn-puducherry-for-neet-exemption-119071500753_1.html
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/specify-when-president-rejected-neet-exemption-bills-hc-to-centre/article28308144.ece
Why is that again? Can you tell me why petrol/diesel prices remain high in India despite Brent crude prices falling through the floor?
The answer is simple: Modi does not spare anything that produces even the slightest whiff of money. He will immediately pounce on it and channel it to his cronies via loan write-offs and get their money via opaque electoral bonds. Either that or he will channel it to his party via advertisements, new schemes (which he will never implement beyond propaganda), etc. If nothing else at all, he will waste them on expensive and wasteful public projects like Shivaji statue, Sardar Patel statue, the proposed Central Vista project in New Delhi, etc., which do not contribute even a cent to the broader economy.
Do you have any idea how much money flows through medical colleges and degrees? You think Modi will allow it to be free and not interfere, especially when Tamilnadu has 10% of all medical seats in India? You must be smoking something really powerful if you believe he will let go of a major source of money like medical education!
He has not touched IT/ITeS yet because meddling in what is effectively India's last remaining source of money would have catastrophic implications for the Indian economy and BJP itself. But if he can, make no mistake, he will regulate it to oblivion.
India is effectively going back to the Indira Gandhi years where the govt tightly controlled their economy.
https://twitter.com/sonaliranade/status/1290273420446318593
Good luck with that!
Yes, DMK knows how to make money by spending money on construction projects, put 90% of the money in their pockets while the remaining 10% goes to the temple. Why are all the temples controlled by the government while the churches and mosques are not? Because the government wants the funds that go into the hundi.
DeleteSadly, the anti-Hindu stance of DMK is not outward but very much a part of their ideology (DK is still allied with DMK). The people have realised it.
"The answer is simple: Modi does not spare anything that produces even the slightest whiff of money."
DeleteIts funny you're accusing Modi of corruption while your own side has brought Venezuela levels of corruption to India. Remember 2G? Cue some half ass defense of DMK in 3.. 2.. 1..
1. Mosques are administered by the Central Wakf Council in India. Look it up.
DeleteWhen I bring up DMK's services to Hinduism, you immediately jump from the topic to state control of temples.
Okay, how many temples did the Modi govt denationalize? Since Dear Leader is so great? Instead, we have this. 80 temples demolished in Modi's capital Ahmedabad. This was from 2008.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/80-temples-demolished-in-Modis-capital/articleshow/3706244.cms
2. The Supreme Court oversaw the 2G investigation and A Raja and others were exonerated. You need to come up with a proper explanation on how 2G was a "scam". NOT ONE COMPANY complained of unfair treatment when A Raja was the telecom minister.
Au contraire, Vodafone CEO said India's TRAI has its boot on everybody's neck.
https://www.ndtv.com/business/either-take-boots-off-neck-vodafone-ceo-warns-government-uk-media-2131192
So according to you, if some stupid govt official alleges a scam in a sector, the minister is culpable. If companies themselves complain of unfair treatment, AAL IZZ WELL.
You are basically regurgitating BJP WhatsApp talking points. I have come across these lame arguments so many times, if I had a dollar for every time I heard these allegations, I would be a millionaire.
Try bringing up something more credible the next time.
Also if MGR and Jayalalithaa had even one shred of evidence that DMK engaged in criminal activities, by now DMK would not exist. On the other hand, both MGR and Jayalalithaa have been posthumously convicted as criminals. One through the Ray Commission, the other for Disproportionate Assets. Karma?
DeleteI am not saying DMK are corruption free. Not all badly corrupt states perform well, but all states that register high growth in India are badly corrupt. Corruption is not an issue India needs to worry about. Getting the job done matters more. In that sense, DMK is the least of all evils available.
DMK got the job done when they were in power.
Tell me if Tamilnadu had such high levels of unemployment, uncertain business climates, etc., under DMK as they do today.
As for Modi, no one wants to invest in Dear Leader's India. Just in case you try to bring up Covid-19 as an excuse to cover-up for Modi:
https://twitter.com/steve_hanke/status/1219655643725881345
This is from mid-January.
What could explain KKR & Co.'s aversion towards India today? I am sorry, was not Modi meant to be the great reformist as touted by that rag-paper Swarajya?
Hahahaha
DeleteNo one calls Modi dear leader. While every poster and wall advertisement in Tamil Nadu calls Karunanidhi.. Dear leader! While his incompetent son is supposedly "young commander" rotfl
As for the 2g spectrum scandal.. Again hahaha. Literally every Indian knows what happened. Your denialism might fly in some local DMK meeting, but not here. Hey thanks for ruining TN's image among Indians with your uninhibited greed and corruption. Waiting for more "contributions" like that!
/Literally every Indian knows what happened./
DeleteWhy do you hide behind the "every Indian" canard instead of bringing up your own arguments? Are you seriously that much of a coward?
Again: NOT ONE COMPANY complained of unfair treatment under A Raja whereas the Vodafone CEO himself complained about TRAI's interference. Why is that? Please tell me.
Yes, because India otherwise would have been like Switzerland, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, among the freest and cleanest economies on earth, if not for Tamilnadu under DMK, right? Only the evil DMK is ruining India's image on the world stage!
Who are other states to talk about Tamilnadu when basically their own laborers or workers move there for a better living, or rather used to, since after a decade of AIADMK, Tamilnadu has become uninhabitable today?
Are you suffering from a serious case of inferiority complex?
"Corruption is not an issue India needs to worry about."
Deletewhat???? Yes you followed it up with that its important to get the job done which implies that people will forgive corruption as long as certain metrics are met. This is true if only this does not affect their day to day lives. However the rot runs deep and just as prosperity can "trickle down" so the moral and economic degrading effects of corruption at the top.
Make no mistake, TN is very much a third world dystopia. Yes it is better off than most of India but that is an "andhon main kaana raja " situation ( one eyed man is king among the blind).
Delete"What could explain KKR & Co.'s aversion towards India today? I am sorry, was not Modi meant to be the great reformist as touted by that rag-paper Swarajya?"
no one except bhakts care for the opinions of swarajyamag. I dont know why you bring it up?
Prem Chand was bringing up points that are mostly talked by BJP so I asked him if he read Swarajya.
DeleteI already stated that corruption is endemic to all states in India. Big govt involves big corruption by default. Yes, Tamilnadu is a nightmare and a lot has to be done, but the issue there is deeper than the argument I had earlier. I am not happy that Tamilnadu is a one-eyed man. I am not at all happy. However as long as someone does decent work there, I will support them.
In all states in India, corruption affects everyday life. This is a sad reality.
"Why do you hide behind the "every Indian" canard instead of bringing up your own arguments? Are you seriously that much of a coward?"
DeleteIf you had accepted the corruption of DMK MPs in the 2G spectrum scandal, I would have moved on. But the DMK activist inside you won't let the opportunity engage in denialism slip by. I don't have to prove that the sun rises in the east. Its enough to point out that everyone accepts it to be a fact.
"Who are other states to talk about Tamilnadu when basically their own laborers or workers move there for a better living,"
I didn't know Gujarat and Maharashtra were sending labourers to TN but then who am I to point that out.
Its not inferiority complex to expect MPs from MY constituency who represent ME to behave well in the government. If they don't, it does reflect badly on me.
speaking of boot on necks- a section of the police body cam footage in the George Floyd case was leaked. Surprise surprise , turns out Floyd was resisting arrest (though not violently) and the cops involved were incredibly patient and considerate giving him many opportunities to deescalate and comply in a calm manner.
DeleteReally? So all the riots and destruction were over someone who actively refused to move in peacefully with cops and prompted them to take the extreme step?
DeleteHow is the situation in America? Is Biden really in the lead and Trump at a disadvantage?
"
ReplyDeleteAgain: NOT ONE COMPANY complained of unfair treatment under A Raja whereas the Vodafone CEO himself complained about TRAI's interference. Why is that? Please tell me."
I dont think you understand what the scam was about
"Yes, because India otherwise would have been like Switzerland, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, among the freest and cleanest economies on earth, if not for Tamilnadu under DMK, right? Only the evil DMK is ruining India's image on the world stage!"
No one is saying this. Dont create strawmen. TN is successful DESPITE DMK not because of it. The credit should go to the Tamil people not any political party.
/No one is saying this. Dont create strawmen. TN is successful DESPITE DMK not because of it. The credit should go to the Tamil people not any political party./
DeleteBad argument. I know well about all the govt schemes that were implemented in Tamilnadu all the way from the Rajaji years down to this day. I am not impressed by this statement of yours even one bit.
I am not saying Tamils do not deserve credit, but who provided the platform for their meteoric rise? Forget doing better, do you think Tamils would have done so well under BJP/Congress type parties?
Why do I not comment on Andhra Pradesh or Telangana? Because I do not know either state as well as you do. Same way, I know pretty well about my state so I pass comments.
Okay, what was the 2G scam about? By my understanding, at least one company should have been affected if there was a genuine scam because they are the investors and hence the main source of money. Calls got far cheaper under A Raja than they were even under Dayanidhi Maran and Arun Shourie. Who benefited the most? The general public.
Prem Chand said this:
Delete"Hey thanks for ruining TN's image among Indians with your uninhibited greed and corruption. Waiting for more "contributions" like that!"
That is why I pulled up Switzerland, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand. Why would I say that if he did not bring this up?
Delete"I am not saying Tamils do not deserve credit, but who provided the platform for their meteoric rise? Forget doing better, do you think Tamils would have done so well under BJP/Congress type parties?"
No. Just a Modi was not really not responsible for the prosperity of Gujarat which I am sure you agree wholeheartedly as the Gujarati culture thrive on entrepreneurial activity and trade. Similarly Tamil culture with its emphasis on technical education led to foreign investors and companies setting up shop there. DMKs schemes were a side effect ,not the cause.
Hahaha, calls getting cheaper had nothing to do with A Raja at all.
I will request you to calm down and consider what you are writing: rather than give your kinsmen credit for turning TN into an industrial powerhouse you are insistent on channeling all compliments to your corrupt overlords? Consider what this says about yourself.
DeleteNot really, I am not that unstable today.
DeleteModi did many good things like making electricity ubiquitous and stable and improving Ahmedabad so that Gujaratis did not have to move to Mumbai or Delhi.
He engaged in a lot of corruption but his positives as Gujarat CM were also there. He brought the Narmada(?) back to life. Not only that, he invited car companies like Tata and Renault to his state. And a lot more.
Actually under A Raja, many companies like Telenor, Batelco, Etisalat, etc., were opening shops in India, before Vinod Rai took the wrecking ball to the economy. Today India's telecom sector is a duopoly of Jio, Airtel. Vodafone is complaining of unfair practices.
Like I said, I am aware of all govt schemes from the Rajaji years down to this day. Some policies introduced by DMK like "First Graduate" scheme, open markets for farm produce, TIDEL Parks, roads, bridges, highways, the Anna Centenary Library, Salem Steel Plant, etc., actually helped that state tremendously.
DeleteBefore DMK came to power in 1967, Tamilnadu was a state ravished by famine. It was a miracle if people could get one bag of rice back then. That was the reality. After DMK came to power, within a decade, that state became self-sufficient in food and was even ready to export food to famine-stricken Gujarat in 1974.
What else explains this if not a solid vision and forward looking policy? Would someone like Nitish Kumar, Lalu Prasad, Mayawati, etc., be able to achieve this?
No one here is defending Vinod Rai or BJP policies. What is with you and this binary thought process?? If someone criticizes DMK, he must pro BJP??
DeleteAnyone who knows Gujarat knows that historically it is land ruled by the mercantilists by proxy .Except when it comes to issues such as law and order, CM doesnt do all that much.
Yes business interests often dangle politicians like puppets but this is intrinsic in Gujarat. So I doubt Modi can get much credit.
"Before DMK came to power in 1967, Tamilnadu was a state ravished by famine. It was a miracle if people could get one bag of rice back then. That was the reality. After DMK came to power, within a decade, that state became self-sufficient in food and was even ready to export food to famine-stricken Gujarat in 1974."
DeleteTHis was the case with many states. The Green and White revolution alleviated suffering for many.
Modi does deserve at least some credit for introducing sound policies which Congress never bothered to implement in Gujarat before 1995. Any Gujarati will say this about Modi, not just me.
DeleteI did not present myself properly. Sorry. I am saying that DMK did a lot during their years in power and contrasted it with BJP's record today. I was trying to make a comparison but as always bungled horribly.
Hunger was very severe in the case of Tamilnadu. DMK started building dams, big and small, everywhere, and introduced open markets for selling farm produce and other schemes. That was how famine was alleviated there. Meanwhile, despite the white and green revolution, India was still importing wheat from America, long after hunger was eliminated and not even an issue in Tamilnadu.
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/31/world/mrs-gandhi-under-fire-for-importing-wheat.html
I dont know why you would make the comparision when no one here is defending BJP? Neither I nor Premchand.
DeleteThe economic liberalization really took off around 1992. A new government in Gujarat would have capitalized on it regardless.
For a lot of these situations you mention you are either confusing cause and effect or ignoring one of the causes.
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/31/world/mrs-gandhi-under-fire-for-importing-wheat.html
DeletePunjab was the main supplier of wheat . Maybe some type of situation was going down in Punjab around 1981. Dont you think.
You couple this with mismanagement and hoarding (farmers often burn tons of crops because either they cant get buyers fast enough or even to artificially create shortages and collect government compensation or insurance pay offs)
I will acknowledge those other efforts of the DMK in this regard.
I am not going to bring up Gujarat. Any Gujarati today will say Modi is the prime reason Gujarat is better off today than it was decades ago. At least that was my experience with them. I am not going to argue on it because they know their state much better than me.
DeleteRe: comparisons, I admit to bungling horribly.
After 1991-92, not all states grew evenly. There are certain models that worked well, certain models that worked partially and certain models that did not work at all. If I am not mistaken, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh hyper-focused on Bengaluru and Hyderabad to the extent of almost neglecting their other districts (this may not be the case for Andhra Pradesh, how far is this true, once again, you know your state better, I do not claim to know everything). On the other hand, Tamilnadu had a relatively more even growth across all its districts. While Chennai got the bulk of the focus, other districts were not neglected so badly.
I absolutely agree with you re: Punjab. Punjab also had the Khalistan insurgency to deal with.
DeleteAs for the stubble burning you mentioned, it happens even today. The main reason Delhi's air is so polluted and gets terrible especially during winters. I wonder why they continue growing stubble which they will only end up burning?
"Any Gujarati today will say Modi is the prime reason Gujarat is better off today than it was decades ago. At least that was my experience with them. I am not going to argue on it because they know their state much better than me."
DeleteMost Gujaratis will credit Modi for the sun rising in the morning. I am not sure they are the most objective source when it comes to all things Modi.
I am not sure I can argue on behalf of Gujaratis or against because I am not a Gujarati. I can only state what I have heard from them.
DeleteYes, Tamils definitely deserve credit for their state being somewhat better, however who provided the platform for their meteoric rise? How will a rocket launch successfully without a proper launchpad?
Check this out. This is from the 1970s. A solid decade before Rajiv Gandhi introduced computers to India. DMK's Karunanidhi translated a book titled "Computers and their uses" to Tamil.
https://twitter.com/idonashok/status/1255835726022754304
"How will a rocket launch successfully without a proper launchpad?"
DeleteWrong analogy. Correct one would be that Tamils wanted to build launch the rocket and build the launch pad, the DMK allowed them to do it as long as they collect 70% kickbacks from the contractors.
As for that, I will leave you with this thread by an ordinary civilian, Sumirti Singaravel.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/sumirti/status/1026792832932048897
But is it not natural for people to say good things about their leaders?
DeleteGujaratis say good things about Modi. You often say good things about YS Rajasekhara Reddy which I am genuinely unaware of.
What is wrong in saying the good things Karunanidhi did when he was alive? I never said he was a snow white entity.
Unlike Gujaratis and Tamils, Telugus leaders are not quite interchangeable . CB Naidu and YSR /Jaganmohan Reddy are not exactly coke and pepsi. They have wildly different viewpoints. Neither are really good in anyway. I have ridiculed Naidus wild eyed schemes and how he is master at marketing than actually delivering much of what is promised. Of course he made incredibly grand promises over the last 20 years of which about 10% came to fruition. I will credit him for improving the quality of policing than the economy and these tech parks which did bring a lot of revenue to the government but benefited very few.
DeleteMy point is that Modi is a personality cult and his stature among Gujaratis cannot be compared to Naidu among Telugus. Telugus unlike Gujaratis are incredibly fickle and quickly ditch leaders on moments notice even as they recieve the requisite adulation when in office.
I see.
DeleteBut Karunanidhi and Jayalalithaa were polar opposites. They were not exactly complementary. Jayalalithaa stopped far too many infrastructure projects in Tamilnadu just because Karunanidhi started them and could not complete them before his term ended. She also did ridiculously stupid things like trying to convert the new secretariat in Chennai to a hospital and wasted so much money, it could have been spent in building a new bigger hospital instead.
Tamils were more comfortable with Jayalalithaa because she offered way more freebies than DMK could ever dream of. Also the cops under her were stricter to the point of ruthless than under Karunanidhi where they were relatively more lenient.
"Also the cops under her were stricter to the point of ruthless than under Karunanidhi where they were relatively more lenient."
DeleteYes thank you Kalaignar for stopping the police from doing their job. If not how will the jihadists do their business? Less said about Karunanidhi's cosying up with the Muslims and Christians the better.
Karunanidhi approached Muslims and Christians for sure but in 2011 and 2014 (and many instances prior) they all overwhelmingly voted for Jayalalithaa. Despite everything, Tamilnadu never really voted in the lines of religion.
DeleteI agree that cops were better under Jayalalithaa and people felt comfortable (especially after the 1997 riots and 1998 bomb blasts in Coimbatore that you mentioned years ago, that was Karunanidhi at his lowest and worst).
"Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh hyper-focused on Bengaluru and Hyderabad to the extent of almost neglecting their other districts (this may not be the case for Andhra Pradesh, how far is this true, once again, you know your state better, I do not claim to know everything)."
ReplyDeleteYes ,AP went for the California model of diverting all resources from the rural areas to cities to subsidize the tech boom. This led to many crop failures and farmer suicides which enabled YSR Reddy acquiring power.
That is sad indeed. They could have evenly built all districts. Given the potential of Telugus, who are hardwired to survive anywhere on earth, it would have helped them tremendously.
DeleteInstead of going for Hyderabad, Nellore, Vizag and Vijayawada alone, they could have been more even.
Tamilnadu did just that. Of course, southern districts need more focus but then DMK were never in power beyond 5 years to focus well on them after the 1970s.
But one thing I will admit: In a way, DMK not being in power beyond 5 years after the 1990s happened to be a blessing in disguise. DMK planned more IT parks in Tamilnadu after 2011. Seeing how Trump is insistent on scrapping or limiting H-1B visas, I am glad it did not happen. They did invite automobile companies to Tamilnadu since the 1990s but their main focus was IT.
DeleteI hope they change their direction if they come to power there next year.
Good job carcino. You successfully diverted the discussion from DMK to Modi and AP and Karnataka as if anybody here is a Modi bhakt.
DeleteNo one should underestimate you.
Yes.
DeleteMaybe it is time to say:
"Carcinogeist: In defense of the corrupt overlords."
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
"Given the potential of Telugus, who are hardwired to survive anywhere on earth, it would have helped them tremendously."
DeleteGiven the farmer suicides , it appears they can survive everywhere except their native lands!
"Instead of going for Hyderabad, Nellore, Vizag and Vijayawada alone, they could have been more even."
Vizag was well developed already .Hyderabad was actually a sleepy backwater.
"Tamilnadu did just that. Of course, southern districts need more focus but then DMK were never in power beyond 5 years to focus well on them after the 1970s."
Kind of a lame excuse. southern districts then as now as the badlands of TN complete with blood vendettas and caste violence similar to Rayalaseema but lower in intensity. Any development in these regions is impossible without fixing basic law and order and infrastructure problems which the respective governments failed to do until very recently. Well Rayalseema seems to be on the right track , I dont know much about the TN southern districts.
Yes, that is completely true. Being the Wild West of Tamilnadu, south Tamilnadu will be a very big challenge. All development in that region effectively stopped after the 1970s. ADMK did not bother doing anything there. DMK never had enough time to dedicate to their development (after 1976, DMK ruled only for 12 years: 1989-91, 1996-2001, 2006-11). It will not be easy (with the exception of Kanyakumari, Tirunelveli and Thoothukudi) but someone must do it.
DeleteNot to mention Karunanidhi's son Alagiri who co-opted the violence in Madurai and turned the city into his personal fiefdom.
DeleteYSV says a few good words about YSR after taking him to task. He can do that because he doesnt blindly support Congress. Your relationship with DMK is of a different nature.
Given the right conditions, farmer suicides in Telugu lands will drop drastically. They are dynamic and got as much potential today as Ottoman Turks did in the past. I do not know what is going on there right now so I cannot comment further.
DeleteMK Alagiri was an absolute shipwreck. He not only turned Madurai into his fiefdom, he made life a nightmare for dissidents elsewhere too, like burning Dinakaran's office with people inside and hacking journalists to death.
DeleteHe was angered after the Karunandhi midnight arrest. Karunanidhi made the biggest mistake of his political career by deputing him. Stalin remedied it by introducing the highly educated and erudite PTR.
https://twitter.com/ptrmadurai
Just to clarify, I am not really a fan of YSR Reddy (or Congress in AP) who is really a glorified warlord. However I did wish to defend him against nonsensical allegations by Hindutvadis who claim that he stole lands around Tirupati and placed Christian missionaries on Devasthanam board. If anything he actually banned conversions around Tirupati and despite a Christian he claimed to be a devotee of Venkateswara and even did darshan (how he reconciles these two faiths is something that confuses me even now but never mind) . And regarding "land seizures" he fell afoul of the Land Ceiling/Land reform act and actually relinquished land and even alloted it to tribals. YSR also finally ended or rather reduced drastically the violence in Rayalseema in order to facilitate investment. Probably one of the reasons he had Paritala Ravi killed.
DeleteHis son however was a different story.
Again not a fan of YSR , more a gangster than a statesman, but TDP used his Christian faith against him in a very malign way by weaponizing Hindutva against him to spread bizarre claims.
Thank you for clarifying about YSR Reddy.
DeleteTo be frank though, Hindutvadis make claims against everyone not in their roster. They need to learn to see things for what they are instead of making allegations.
I do not comment on issues I know nothing about except what I hear from others. Also I try to admit to my failings when pointed out except when I feel convinced that I am completely right somewhere.
Quoting from the Economist circa 2013
Delete“Tamil Nadu is the first state in India that has decoupled politics from economic progress,” declares a big Indian business figure. Like many he argues that the state’s economic success is down to two factors. First, good genes. Tamils have traded across Asia for centuries. The state capital, Chennai, then called Madras, was a hub for assembling tanks and artillery during the second world war, giving it an industrial edge, says S. Muthiah, a historian. A knack for administration dates back to colonial times, when Madras ran south India. Brainy Tamil Brahmins no longer dominate the bureaucracy—they are more likely to be in Silicon Valley. But the civil service still works, say businessmen. It is probably why the public finances look passable.
Second, when they weren’t checking their hair, the politicians did some good in the 1970s and 1980s. Free school lunches raised enrolments. Affirmative action in state-run higher education broke down caste hierarchies and inadvertently “created a new ecosystem of private colleges and universities,” says Lakshmi Narayanan of Cognizant, one of the many IT firms that like the state for its education. The work ethic, loyalty and trust many firms say they find in Tamil Nadu owes something to policies from decades ago that spread the benefits of growth."
Despite the snark, it makes some good points. It credits both Tamil people and some foundations laid down by DMK decades ago (note not in last few years).
Most important is this line
Delete“Tamil Nadu is the first state in India that has decoupled politics from economic progress”
Which is pretty much the gist of my argument.
While he is broadly true, the Dravidian movement is a hundred years old. It started in the Madras Presidency under the Justice Party which started in 1916. Justice Party won in 1920 and ruled till 1937 except for 1926 to 1930 when Madras was ruled by Swaraj Party under Srinivasa Iyengar. That was the time when many many schools were opened throughout Madras Presidency. WWII started in 1939 and lasted till 1945.
DeleteTamilnadu was able to decouple politics and economics because of good policies earlier on. The big business figure is broadly right. However bad politics is already starting to take a toll on Tamilnadu in recent days.
I skipped a para or two. As that said stuff we discussed before. However apart from Tamil Brahmins , a lot of Vellalas were also involved in the administration which wasnt mentioned in the article.
DeleteIn AP, the Brahmins installed by British werent even Telugu but Marathi Dehastha. These guys like Persians were noted for their administration skills. Everyone from Tipu Sultan to Travancore Zamorin to Baroda Rajas used them. Telugus managed to oust them and replaced them with their own which was no mean feat.
Marathis were disliked as they openly mocked Telugu more than Urdu speakers. "Telangi bedangi" (graceless uncouth Telugu) which is falsely attributed to Muslims actually was a common phrase among Marathi speakers in Nizams dominion.
I agree. Apart from Brahmins, a lot of Vellalars were involved.
DeleteHowever Vellalars decided to spearhead the Dravidian movement. Some of them moved to OBC later on.
So you are telling us Marathis had friction with Telugus in the past. But then there is a Marathi clan that fights with Tamils over the Brihadeeshwar temple built in Thanjavur by Tamil king Raja Raja Chola even today!
Do Marathis fight too often with other people?
Dravidian movement primary target were Brahmins not just due to ideological reasons but they were direct competition for jobs in the administration. As Brahmins migrated so did the threat of Brahminism. Anyway generally people like Kamalahassan are far more anti Brahmin than say Vellala director Shankar. His movies Gentleman and Anniyan were very pro Brahmin. Vellalas were often more Brahmin in their habits than Brahmins themselves.
DeleteMarathis have serious superiority complex - a hold over from the days of the Peshwas. Thus their frictions with various peoples.
/Vellalas were often more Brahmin in their habits than Brahmins themselves./
DeletePersonal experience. I will tell you, you are absolutely right. My own family is ultra-conservative and will give Saudi Wahhabis a run for their money. I desire to eat meat but my parents will not tolerate me going anywhere near even a restaurant that serves both vegetarians and meat-eaters!
Anyways, I am away from them and I also earn so I will go on. I just need to know how to start eating meat. That is where my problem lies.
Marathis are simple people. They should seriously stop clashing with others. Then there will be absolutely no problem for them.
Dravidianism was not really spearheaded by Vellalars but Mudaliar Annadurai and Telugu Naycker Periyar. There is a rumor going around Karunanidhi was a native Telugu like Periyar but its just a rumor so ill leave it at that.
DeleteBut the reason some Vellalars have supported DMK in the recent years is from the impression that Karunanidhi helped them by giving OBC status. It made sense in the past since most Vellalars were poor farmers, but now reservation is misused by people who don't deserve it. I myself didn't need reservation to go to college or move up in life.
Isnt Mudaliar a Vellala title?
DeleteYes it is. Thondaimandala Vellalars are called Mudaliars. PTR Madurai is a Mudaliar.
DeleteKarunanidhi is assumed to be a Telugu but there is a mistake in the allegation.
He comes from a clan called Isai Vellalars which belongs to the MBC category. But there are 2 types of Isai Vellalars: Periya Melam Isai Vellalars (who are Tamils but ancestors were Telugus) and Chinna Melam Isai Vellalars (who are Tamils through and through).
Karunanidhi and his family belong to the Chinna Melam Isai Vellalar sect.
Anyways, I appreciate Periyar although his mother tongue was Kannada. Heck the most prominent early leaders of the Dravidian movement, i.e., the Justice Party, were Telugus and Malayalees!
/But the reason some Vellalars have supported DMK in the recent years is from the impression that Karunanidhi helped them by giving OBC status. It made sense in the past since most Vellalars were poor farmers, but now reservation is misused by people who don't deserve it. I myself didn't need reservation to go to college or move up in life./
DeleteI agree with this point. After a certain community reaches a level where they can make do without reservations, they need to be moved to the general category and the OBC/SC/ST reservation percentage needs to go down gradually.
@ysv
DeleteYes but the Mudaliars were engaged in commerce unlike the average Vellalar farmer. Thus Mudaliars were better educated which brought them into competition with the Brahmins. This was the whole rationale behind the founding of the Justice Party. Real social justice for everyone was not on the agenda until much later. Justice party was also notorious for violence and dirty tactics in its time.
You are right re: Justice Party. Also as years went by, they were gutted by internal factions and were losing out politically too. They became detached from the public and soon faded into oblivion...till Periyar integrated JP with his self-respect movement and formed Dravidar Kazhagam in 1944.
DeleteAlso I want to ask something. Please do not get offended.
ReplyDeleteWhy are people from Andhra Pradesh/Telangana over-represented among Indian Maoists? I mean, the leader is Nambala Keshava Rao from Srikakulam. Muppala Lakshmana Rao alias Ganapathy was the General Secretary.
I can understand tribals picking up arms against the State because they are affected by New Delhi's policies. Why people from Telangana and Andhra Pradesh though?
"Why are people from Andhra Pradesh/Telangana over-represented among Indian Maoists? I mean, the leader is Nambala Keshava Rao from Srikakulam. Muppala Lakshmana Rao alias Ganapathy was the General Secretary."
DeleteThis has been the case since the days since the days of Nizam. And later George Reddy revived it somewhat. JNU colleges activated cultivated them until they could no longer control that Frankenstein. Where ever you have severe feudalism such as AP/Telengana(more so Telengana) and educated unemployed young men and a restive peasant population then this is bound to occur. Add to this the fact that militarily inclined young men from AP are unable to join the Indian army due to little knowledge of Hindi or English and all their martial instincts are diverted to fighting against the Indian state instead of for it.
Damn...so a better solution to this problem would be to include more Telugus in the Indian Army instead of keeping them out of it. But why is the Indian State not doing the right thing?
Delete"But why is the Indian State not doing the right thing?"
DeleteLot of Telugus in the navy and the air force . As well as CRPF and Siachen . A lot of brigadiers as well. The last effective governor of Kashmir as a KV Krishna Rao. But apart CRPF and SIachen ,most of those positions require high levels of education as well as connection . For the less educated infantry is a better option but there is no culture of Telugus joining the army since the British dissolved the Vellore mutiny and disarmed vast swathes of the AP/Telangana
Reverend Caldwell's observations
"The Telugu country is nearly twice larger than the Tamil, but is less thickly populated. Considerable colonies of Telugu people have been formed in the Tamil country, who retain their own language. The Telugu country, as a border land, has been subject to the devastation and rapacious oppression of conquerors from a dis tance, who yet would not so far settle among its people as to blend and have common interests with them, or establish well-ordered governments among them. The whole face of the country— dotted with hill forts, destitute of irrigation, with (till lately) large tracts of waste land, bare of gardens—bears testimony to this. The fewness of flourishing towns and of large temples •, the presence, in all the larger villages, of petty forts, and in most of the smaller villages of round towers commanding the doors of all the houses, from which' to fire upon gang robbers ; the style in which the best houses are built, everything being sacrificed to strength and security,—all have the same significance. The abject servility towards courts and cutcherries is .shown by the term devaravaru, God, with the honorific plural, applied to a superior, while the genius of the language forbids the use of anything but the singular for the deity. The common word in use for saving or taking care of anything, as money, is dapettee, hide. Only after the Disarmino. Act, consequent on the 1857 mutiny, the people of all classes got out of the habit of carryints arms with them. Except along the coast, hardly any Europeans penetrated into the Telugu country earlier than the beginning of the 19th century, and only since its middle have the efforts even of Christian missionaries extended beyond the limits of the town where they established themselves. The Telugu people compared with the Tamil are physically a larger, handsomer, and more robust race, partaking much of the Aryan element. The tall forms, drooping (yet broad) shoulders, and regular Circassian features of the Rayat and Reddi races in particular, are in strong and favourable contrast to the general make of the Tamil people. They are of a free, independent spirit,—not so tractable or plastic as the Tamil people. Under the robbery and oppression. of former rulers, they emigrated, or in their turn became robbers ; slavery is unknown among them. Though they are very jealous for caste as far as they do observe it, and will make great sacrifices for it, nothing like the extreme homage paid by the southern out-castes to the superior castes is either demanded or yielded in the Telugu country. Not like the Tamil people, only tell the Teling a thing, and they'll do it quietly ; say a word to a Tamil, and the Tamilar answer you. Servility is confined to the Brahmans and Muhammadans of courts and cutcherries —regions where the imme diate presence of the former rulers used to be felt."
Deleteon the other hand he praises SL Tamils as physically superior to many of south Asian peoples
"The structure of the skeleton is taller and more powerful in the Tamil and his muscular system well developed so that he displays ease and endurance of toil for which Cinghalese is useless. The singularly slender and feminine character of the limbs which is conspicuous in the Cinghalese men is never seen in the Tamils; even the women are stronger and more sinewy. Still the Tamil is far from being particularly bony and robust, he is , on the contrary ,tall and graceful; the general proportions of his frame correspond so nearly with the artistic standard of beauty that the Dravida cannot be included among the inferior races of humanity -on the contrary, many specimens come remarkably near the Greek ideal
His brow is lower, nostrils broader,chin heavier
the exepression (of the Tamil) is grave and gloomy. I rarely seen a Tamil laugh and never so gaily as is quite common with the Cinghalese
"
This only adds further to my suspicion that Sri Lankan Tamils and Indian Tamils are entirely different peoples except for a common language. I mean, our food habits, societal outlook, approach to problems, etc., diverge greatly. If not for the common factor of language and to some extent culture, Indian Tamils and Sri Lankan Tamils are entirely different.
DeleteCaldwell's description of the Telugus is fascinating. I am not surprised that 1 in every 5 or 6 Tamils has Telugu or Kannada ancestry. GD Naidu, Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, Vaiko and Vijayakanth are prominent examples, and also Periyar EVR.
"IMAGINE a place run by film stars—vain, power-hungry, paranoid, adored. Imagine they had been in charge not for the duration of a reality television series but for decades in a territory containing 72m people and one of the world’s largest cities. It would be a disaster zone, wouldn’t it? Think again, and welcome to Tamil Nadu, one of India’s great success stories—and a state run by actors. It is the ultimate celebrity experiment.
ReplyDeleteTycoons and foreign bosses are infatuated by Gujarat, a hard-charging western state where the trains run on time. Policy wonks admire Bihar, an eastern badland that is getting its act together. But India’s most consistent economic performer is in its deep south (see chart). Tamil Nadu has the third-biggest GDP of any state and has grown faster and richer than most.
It is as industrialised as Gujarat—Hyundai, Ford and Renault, among others, churn out a third of all cars made in India there, while the state’s looms dominate the national textile industry. It is also as socially progressive as famously lefty states like Kerala. Compared with the Indian average, more people can read, fewer babies die, and fewer folk are poor in Tamil Nadu.
Those achievements sit alongside a political scene that makes Brazilian soap-operas look prim. The personality cults seen across India today, which lead some to despair, gripped Tamil Nadu decades ago. Power swings between two parties: the DMK and its offshoot, AIADMK."
They seem to sensationalize the culture a bit for masala . It is disgraceful that The Economist is reduced to this style of writing. But I lost faith in them when they endorsed tax and spend lite neo liberal Obama not once but twice.
"Some hope that all this has given Tamil Nadu a self-sustaining momentum and that its politics are but a side show, as relevant to progress as Broadway is to Wall Street. But decades of eccentric governance are catching up with Tamil Nadu.
ReplyDeleteGraft is endemic. Infrastructure, with its long-term benefits, has been neglected—the state has been spending about 5% of GDP a year on it compared with 7-8% in India as a whole. Carmakers must truck new vehicles through Chennai at night to get to its cramped port. A new airport terminal is opening, a metro is being built and new ports are being readied. But this is all a little late. Most worryingly, electricity supply is 20-30% less than peak demand. Small firms without political clout suffer most.
Political neglect is hurting the economy. Tamil Nadu’s share of manufacturing investment has dropped. GDP growth slowed to 4.6% in the year to March 2013, below the Indian average. Ms Jayalalitha has launched a furious campaign to build power stations and attract investment.
But her eye may also be on a bigger stage: national politics. Tamil parties ally opportunistically with national ones (in March the DMK withdrew from India’s ruling coalition after disagreements over policy on Sri Lanka). Ms Jayalalitha may ally her AIADMK with Narendra Modi, the chief minister of Gujarat, and a likely candidate for prime minister for the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party in the election due by 2014. She may even dream of a leading role herself in a national coalition.
That is unlikely, but it won’t prevent Ms Jayalalitha trumpeting her state as an example to the rest of the country. Tamil Nadu is one of India’s most prosperous places. But it also shows how the neglect of long term problems can catch up with you. Even an actress cannot hide that."
It ends with this. Keep in mind this was written in 2013. But the fundamental argument still holds.
GDP growth in 2010-11 (when DMK were in power) was 13.12%. It is mentioned here.
Deletehttps://www.livemint.com/Industry/lfNbBwsomcfrEs5fjsD0qK/Is-Chennai-losing-out-to-SriCity.html
Jayalalithaa drove it all into the ground in less than 2 years. This is the sad reality.
Building and commissioning a power plant takes at least 4-5 years. DMK did all that work when they were in power because Jayalalithaa never bothered to start even one power plant when she was in power. Thus the widespread power cuts in Tamilnadu during 2006-11. Not one power project proposed by AIADMK since 2011 has been started, forget commissioning finished power plants, and it has been a decade since they captured power there.
As for that cramped port, that was why DMK started the construction of the Maduravoyal flyover in Chennai back in 2009. Jayalalithaa stopped it and now it lies abandoned.
The Chennai metro rail service started by DMK in 2009 was abruptly stopped by Jayalalithaa in 2011. She gave the excuse of building a 111 m long monorail (did not happen). The metro rail project did not move till well after her death. This is a fact.
/India has never been in a position for mass mobilization of its resources to fight wars in distant lands like U.S , USSR and Nazi Germany have done (I don't include UK as it relied overwhelmingly on foreign troops) . It has never had its logistic supply line and military resolve truly tested.
ReplyDeleteThe only adventure I can think is Maldives when a handful of Tamil militants took over the island which was liberated by India in less than a day./
What about France, the Netherlands and Spain? And the Ottoman Turkish Empire? Were they superpowers? They had control over vast swathes of land in the past.