Tuesday, December 20, 2016

Excerpt from Anthony Daniel's Wilder Shores of Marx: A Potemkin Mall in North Korea


Anthony Daniels who usually writes in his nom de plume Theodore Dalrymple paid a visit to North Korea in the late 1980s as the usually discriminating North Koreans mistakenly assumed he was friendly to the regime as he had once with Julius Nyere of Tanzania who was a friend of the despot Kim Song.

He had made several remarkable observations. None more than what was a implicitly a tribute to capitalist society but it end up as an indavertent satire.



I went several times during the festival to Pyongyang Department Store Number 1. This is in the very centre of the city. Its shelves and counters were groaning with locally produced goods, piled into impressive pyramids or in fan-like displays, perfectly arranged, throughout the several floors of the building. On the ground floor was a wide variety of tinned foods, hardware and alcoholic drinks, including a strong Korean liqueur with a whole snake pickled or marinated in the bottle, presumably as an aphrodisiac. Everything glittered with perfection, the tidiness was remarkable.

It didn’t take long to discover that this was no ordinary department store. It was filled with thousands of people, going up and down the escalators, standing at the corners, going in and out of the front entrance in a constant stream both ways – yet nothing was being bought or sold. I checked this by standing at the entrance for half an hour. The people coming out were carrying no more than the people entering. Their shopping bags contained as much, or as little, when they left as when they entered. In some cases, I recognised people coming out as those who had gone in a few minutes before, only to see them re-entering the store almost immediately. And I watched a hardware counter for fifteen minutes. There were perhaps twenty people standing at it; there were two assistants behind the counter, but they paid no attention to the ‘customers’. The latter and the assistants stared past each other in a straight line, neither moving nor speaking.

Eventually, they grew uncomfortably aware that they were under my observation. They began to shuffle their feet and wriggle, as if my regard pinned them like live insects to a board. The assistants too became restless and began to wonder what to do in these unforeseen circumstances. They decided that there was nothing for it but to distribute something under the eyes of this inquisitive foreigner. And so, all of a sudden, they started to hand out plastic wash bowls to the twenty ‘customers’, who took them (without any pretence of payment). Was it their good luck, then? Had they received something for nothing? No, their problems had just begun. What were they to do with their plastic wash bowls? (All of them were brown incidentally, for the assistants did not have sufficient initiative to distribute a variety of goods to give verisimilitude to the performance, not even to the extent of giving out differently coloured bowls.)

They milled around the counter in a bewildered fashion, clutching their bowls in one hand as if they were hats they had just doffed in the presence of a master. Some took them to the counter opposite to hand them in; some just waited until I had gone away. I would have taken a photograph, but I remembered just in time that these people were not participating in this charade from choice, that they were victims, and that – despite their expressionless faces and lack of animation – they were men with chajusong, that is to say creativity and consciousness, and to have photographed them would only have added to their degradation. I left the hardware counter, but returned briefly a little later: the same people were standing at it, sans brown plastic bowls, which were neatly re-piled on the shelf.
I also followed a few people around at random, as discreetly as I could. Some were occupied in ceaselessly going up and down the escalators; others wandered from counter to counter, spending a few minutes at each before moving on. They did not inspect the merchandise; they moved as listlessly as illiterates might, condemned to spend the day among the shelves of a library. I did not know whether to laugh or explode with anger or weep. But I knew I was seeing one of the most extraordinary sights of the twentieth century.

I decided to buy something – a fountain pen. I went to the counter where pens were displayed like the fan of a peacock’s tail. They were no more for sale than the Eiffel Tower. As I handed over my money, a crowd gathered round, for once showing signs of animation. I knew, of course, that I could not be refused: if I were, the game would be given away completely. And so the crowd watched goggle-eyed and disbelieving as this astonishing transaction took place: I gave the assistant a piece of paper and she gave me a pen.
The pen, as it transpired, was of the very worst quality. Its rubber for the ink was so thin that it would have perished immediately on contact with ink. The metal plunger was already rusted; the plastic casing was so brittle that the slightest pressure cracked it. And the box in which it came was of absorbent cardboard, through whose fibres the ink of the printing ran like capillaries on the cheeks of a drunk.
At just before four o’clock, on two occasions, I witnessed the payment of the shoppers. An enormous queue formed at the cosmetics and toiletries counter and there everyone, man and woman, received the same little palette of rouge, despite the great variety of goods on display. Many of them walked away somewhat bemused, examining the rouge uncomprehendingly. At another counter I saw a similar queue receiving a pair of socks, all brown like the plastic bowls. The socks, however, were for keeps. After payment, a new shift of Potemkin shoppers arrived.

The Department Store Number 1 was so extraordinary that I had to talk to someone about it. But the young communist from Glasgow to whom I described it simply exclaimed: ‘So what! Plenty of people go to Harrods without buying anything, just to look.’ Nevertheless, I returned twice to Department Store Number 1 because, in my opinion, it had as many layers of meaning as a great novel, and every time one visited it one realised – as on re-reading Dickens or Tolstoy – that one had missed something from the time before.
Department Store Number 1 was a tacit admission of the desirability of an abundance of material goods, consumption of which was very much a proper goal of mankind. Such an admission of the obvious would not have been in any way remarkable were it not that socialists so frequently deny it, criticising liberal capitalist democracy because of its wastefulness and its inculcation of artificial desires in its citizens, thereby obscuring their ‘true’ interests. By stocking Department Store Number 1 with as many goods as they could find, in order to impress foreign visitors, the North Koreans admitted that material plenty was morally preferable to shortage, and that scarcity was not a sign of abstemious virtue; rather it was proof of economic inefficiency. Choice, even in small matters, gives meaning to life. However well fed, however comfortable modern man might be without it, he demands choice as a right, not because it is economically superior, but as an end in itself. By pretending to offer it, the North Koreans acknowledged as much; and in doing so, recognised that they were consciously committed to the denial of what everyone wants.



But the most sombre reflection occasioned by Department Store Number 1 is that concerning the nature of the power that can command thousands of citizens to take part in a huge and deceitful performance, not once but day after day, without any of the performers ever indicating by even the faintest sign that he is aware of its deceitfulness, though it is impossible that he should not be aware of it. One might almost ascribe a macabre and sadistic sense of humour to the power, insofar as the performance it commands bears the maximum dissimilarity to the real experience and conditions of life of the performers. It is as if the director of a leper colony commanded the enactment of a beauty contest – something one might expect to see in, say, a psychologically depraved surrealist film. But this is no joke, and the humiliation it visits upon the people who take part in it, far from being a drawback, is an essential benefit to the power; for slaves who must participate in their own enslavement by signalling to others the happiness of their condition are so humiliated that they are unlikely to rebel.

Monday, December 5, 2016

Hindu nationalist support for Trump simply exposes their impotence


(Note: I actually started this a few months ago but didnt get around to adding the finishing touches today. However it is even more relevant since Trump won)

From nearly deifying Hitler to applying a tilak on Che Guevara, dimwitted Hindus have now found a new way to show the world their intellectual bankruptcy and powerlessness.

Only Donald Trump can save humanity

"Save humanity". On what basis is this fantastic claim made? Because he said some unflattering things about Muslims? And what basis do you believe he will follow through by putting his words in action? Where is any record of him doing that?

Have you forgotten somewhat that one of your ideological kinsmen is in charge of a country which is the seventh largest in the world with a population of over a billion and the fourth largest army with a respected air force and a navy capable of considerable force projection? I didnt even mention nuclear weapons ,delivery systems and our very own satellites. India is quite capable of destroying ISIS or the Taliban(the latter in its backyard) if need be. Why doesnt it? Well gentleman , take a look in the mirror. You are the most incompentent, hollow and brain dead bunch of "patriots" out there. For all the talk of  the "white man's" atrocities, it really doesnt take much pressure for you to go grovelling back to him. And what exactly were you Hindutvadis doing when the white man was ruling your country? No doubt you were ardent revolutionaries, raised an army and allied with the Germans and Japanese at great personal risks to yourselves or joined the British Indian army in large numbers so that you would be better positioned to mutiny at the end of WWII.  Oh my bad, it was those blasted "secularists" who did all that! But you did do a great deal of calisthenics in khaki shorts , so that is just as good I suppose.

Just in the independence struggle ,particularly during the inter war years you were spoiled for choice in all manners of undermining British rule, similarly now Muslim militarism or indeed Muslim beliefs are a target rich environment. The latter particularly are unable to withstand the barrage of criticism from bloggers,tweeters and the like. Here yes, you do your part ...from the safety and anonymity of your homes.

Rather than fight them yourselves (no rioting against Muslim civilians doesnt count) you have pretty much thrown in the towel and ahem "outsourced" it to Americans.

Honestly I ask you-what is stopping you from donning fatigues or a suicide vest and unleashing terror in Karachi, Lahore or Islamabad? OK never mind , perhaps that is too "immoral" for you (though raping and incinerating Indian Muslim women apparently are not). How about travelling to Afghanistan ,Pakistan tribal areas or Northern Iraq to fight Taliban or ISIS? Honestly what is stopping you? Kurds and Christians would actually extend you a warm welcome. But you will not. You are cowards, You are idiots. You are vermin. Thoroughly contemptible and an utter disgrace to our religion. The good news however is you are not really Hindus at all. Your supremacy clause as I mentioned before is not Hinduism but India. If the Muslims suddenly become secularized ala Turkey and pay allegiance to Bharatmata as most non Romans did by prostrating themselves before the statues of the Caesar, Im sure  you will throw in the towel for them too.

Make no mistake, history is not too kind to those  who gained independence or was relieved of oppressors from foreign powers. There is simply no substitute for grit and self respect. Those who lack these will be consumed one way or another.




Sunday, September 4, 2016

What is the supremacy clause of Hindu nationalists?


The supremacy clause in the United States states that whatever the various kooky laws that each state or jurisdiction can impose on its constituents ,if it goes against the spirit and the letter of the U.S Constitution then the Constitution takes precedent.

Similarly I have to wonder what takes precedence for Hindu nationalists- Hinduism or the nation. And no they are not synonymous. If they were ,we would have seen atleast something analogous to joint Christian efforts such as the Crusades, Lepanto or Vienna in combating Islamic extremism. There are none ,so therefore Hindus have not constituted a nation. Of course that doesnt mean they cant start. However in order to do that, we have start rethinking about our countries and its border. For example -why are Muslim Kashmir and Christian and tribal northeast in India while Nepal and Sri Lanka are not? This of course involved boldness ,strategic thinking and far reaching vision that no one expects of Hindutvadis and who can blame them? I mean these are guys who believe Burma was a part of Bharatavarsha though Afghanistan was not!

So again I ask you which is it- is it Bharatmata or is it Shiva, Durga, Vishnu etc etc. Well let us analyze their own views.

Savarkar , the godfather of Hindutva defined a Hindu not on his ideological or theological bent neither his allegiance to a certain set of scriptures and rituals but the the ancient resident of a country with vaguely defined borders-Bharatavarsha.

The RSS had often advocated that Bharatmata should be considered the supreme deity of Hindus with Shiva,Vishnu, Devi etc taking a backseat!

I will be a tad honest that may upset such those Hindus who revere India as a nation state but don't care for Hindutvadis- the question to ask is this- is Hinduism better off in the Republic of India or when it was divided into warring states? Keep in mind there was no united polity of Bharatavarsha when Rama, Krishna, Arjuna,Vishwamitra, Buddha, Vikaramaditya, Patanjali, Ramanuja, Shankaracharya etc etc walked the earth. However with the republic of India we are awash with Matas, babas, swamis of the most base and fraudulent nature. Which do you choose?

Perhaps you can say both. Well its possible but over here I'm speculating but it seems to me that we have given up a lot that of Vedic and Puranic tradition(both good and bad) in order to be prostrate ourselves before Bharatmata.

For now India should exist if only because of Pakistan, China and other threats such as new avatars of East India company in some multinationals. Though in fairness it may well be Indian government may itself become the new East India company(witness the Indian troops stationed in Afghanistan to protect Indian interests and increasingly aggressive positions in the Arabian Sea). Keep in mind, many imperial ventures started out as self defense particularly to curb piracy. Arabs had a cassus bellum of invading Sindh when Muslim orphans from Sri Lanka en route to Baghdad were captured by pirates based in Sindh. English adventurism was bolstered by Spanish depredations who the former paid back in the same coin. The U.S marine corps were formed with the express intent of smashing the Barbary pirates in North Africa who would capture U.S merchant fleets for ransom (hence the Marine Corp hymn "From the Halls of Montezuma  To the shores of Tripoli ;")

We have witnessed the heroic actions of Indian sailors in dealing with Somali pirates. And they may follow the same career path of the former European naval powers. But sic transit Gloria, Europeans had traded their religious fervor for secular nationalist Gloria. Their saints and relics for Britannia and Marianne. Looks like we are doing the same.

At some point like Britannia, Bharat Mata will turn into an Asura trying to devour the Devas and we may have to smash it when the time comes

India is increasingly for me what Vatican is for Catholics, Jerusalem for Jews or Mecca for Muslims. And I anticipate it will be the same for the residents of a future balkanized India(the term Balkanized has acquired a negative connotation, I don't consider always a bad thing).

So I have decided which is more important to me . It is Hinduism. BJP/RSS/VHP need not respond, I already know their answer.


Tuesday, May 17, 2016

Modi goes into full subsidy mode :Wants us to remain a nation of farmers





At the risk of sounding like a  broken record Sabhlok on Modi who seems to have some odd personal vendetta against the PM, in this case he is proven right. For long subsidized crops at fixed prices were the bane of Indian farming which led to stagnation of small farmers and large farmers corruptly colluding with the central government where they will find a ready buyer and thwart competition from foreign markets regardless.U.S pretty much has the same story

Farm Subsidies Put India in a Bind (Wall Street Journal story which I wont link for reasons given in comments below)

“The market support…encourages farmers to produce much more of the subsidized commodities than they would have otherwise, exacerbating the global glut.”

In other words subsidized crops led to over supply which in turn led to low prices and this put a farmer in an uncomfortable quandry. What is the solution, well subsidize them some more of course as per Modi thus perpetuating poverty for the small farmer. The large zamindars can take a hit and recover.

“India guarantees minimum prices for certain crucial crops to protect its large population of poor farmers. When prices plunge, it has to buy more. It usually sells the commodities it collects at a loss—some to India’s needy and some on global markets. Some of the stockpile just rots in government warehouses.”

 Be it BJP, Congress , AAP or whichever character is in charge, our romanticized approach to agricultural leads to many wrong headed decisions. And oh god forbid the Indian consumer be exposed to crops from abroad! Cant let that, we have to protect our farmers, no matter what! Perhaps if farming was unprofitable for some folks, then they shouldnt be farming. At what point will the Indian government realize this?

I am reminded of some lunkheaded minister who was aghast the economic liberalization introduced by PM Rao may expose the Indian populace to that very agent of Satan- washing machines! Why , howled the minister, think of all the maid servants who will be unemployed. To which PVNR responded as he only he could "if we think like that, we would remain a nation of maidservants"
  

Similarly in his dimwitted RSS mindset wants us to remain a nation of farmers. But why single out the BJP , pretty all politicians suffer from this primitive mindset no matter how educated. The notion of the noble farmer as the backbone of the Indian economy is a hard one to displace.

To all these naysayers out there - I ask you what percentage of say U.S is involved in farming - a mere 5%! And yes they are self sufficient actually , thank you very much.

In the meantime......

“Government officials say they have no plans to reduce the subsidies….(India) even threatened to scuttle an important World Trade Organization agreement in 2014 unless it was given a guarantee that it could continue its subsidy and stockpiling programs. ‘Subsidies are meant to encourage productivity and better farming practices,’ said Sudhir Singh, an official at India’s agriculture ministry. ‘We are committed to our social-welfare programs.’”

Operation is successful- Patient is dead. That is the Indian government's mindset towards the economy.

Argument with an ignorant Rajput supremacist on Historum




I had been participating on historum on and off for last 8 months or so. In the process of quarelling with some Paki propagandists I had been suspended. Recently I came across a Rajput apologist called "Bhrigu" talking trash about south Indians so I decided to give him the treatment. You can find the full exchange here. This lily livered coward at first claimed that he would not engage me anymore but after my response to him, he reported me , had me banned for multi accounting(guilty is charged) and then went ahead with incoherent rubbish below. His text is italics, my response in normal.

................

You make many bizarre allegations and insuniations here which I want to address before I go further. I am by no means a Maratha basher and no , not even a Rajput basher. I simply want to point that each community has a mixed record with its own pluses and minuses. None of the south Indian posters implied Rajputs were anyhow inferior but YOU were the one who brought up taunts such as it takes a Rajput to defeat a Turk, not a Kannadiga etc. I simply responded in kind and all of a sudden you behave like a wounded fawn.


If you think you need to provide explanations behind what you say then it is you acting like a "wounded fawn", not me. 

 Are you serious. All I did was respond to your rubbish. And now you whine about my response. If you dont understand it thas not my problem. The very fact you responded after you declared that you dont wish to participate in this exchange and then responded after I got banned show your utter lack of character and cowardice to all.

And your post below seems to be nothing but some personal insults and irrelevant ramblings. Anyway, as I have said before, I'll refrain from participating in any fight or responding to any insult since I have been warned by the moderators once, and I do not like suspensions unlike a multi-accounter like yourself. 

I really hate people who are so unimaginative at retorts that they end up recycling yours. Anyway thank you for admitting that the only way you can debate me is by banning me by snitching on me to the moderators like some cowering school boy.




The most important comment I need to make is how you simply avoided my point regarding geography with some (rather expected) irrelevant and meaningless remarks. It is indeed the geography which is playing the biggest role here, as there never was any major Islamic empire reaching South. A single campaign facing all odds would set up the base for 600 years of Islamic rule in the South, which is indeed quite laughable.

I already addressed the claim about geography. South when it came to the early Turkic Islamic invasions and superior weaponry and logistics were almost bulldozed just as the North was. Once again you have no case for south inferiority-Rajput superiority.

Marathas managed to crush Aurangzeb and his Islamist empire even though they were far from the centre of his power. So Rajputs obviously had a better chance to do it than Marathas. You yourself boasted about Mewar being untouched by Muslim rule so why couldnt it do more than Marathas is a very reasonable question. Remind me when Marathas crushed Aurangzeb? It is just like saying Mongols were crushed by Japanese just because they failed to conquer it and lost men in the effort.

Aurangzeb could capture Shivaji when he wanted and make him pay tribute, and also capture and execute his son. At best one can say is they raided some of their territories a few times, and then defended their realms successfully from the Mughal armies. Real "crushing" of Mughals happened after Aurangzeb's death.

The Mughal empire at Aurangzebs death was for practical purposes finishing. The loss of men and monies made the empire simply unsustainable. And please dont use historical analogies in a pathetic attempt to look smart. Mongols may have been "defeated" by the Japanese but that didnt spell the end of the empire like it did for Mughals.



Actually none of this is really obvious to me. Afghans and Turks are rather overrated militarily and they won as often by dirty tricks and subterfuge as due to their superior military organization, weapons and tactics. 

You say that it is not obvious to you, you also say that they have superior military organisation, weapons and tactics. Okay, bro. 

I phrased that poorly. As man to man any Indic soldier was more than his worth in salt than a Turkic or Afghan soldier but they were more developed militarily.



Quote:
NOw you are shifting the goalposts from Mewar Rajputs in Akbar's era to all Rajputs at all times. You see the problem here. 

WTF are you talking about???

If you cant follow just STFU.


Quote:
ROTFL , not this lame claim again. You contradict yourself by giving the example of Malik Kafur who conquered south India relatively easily. BTW that was a first for any conquerer. Even Asoka, Samudragupta and Harsha couldnt manage that. So put that into consideration. The Islamic conquest created an entirely new paradigm in India. So that has to be placed into context.

 This is what I said > Malik Kafur faced many odds, massive geographical barriers. Even after this he managed to wipe out all kingdoms from South India.



Now tell me how I self-contradict.

Once again , if you have to sit at the adults table either try to follow or STFU


Quote:
Repeating rubbish claims over and over again in a Goebbelsian manner may fly in some BJP committee meeting teeming with semi literate RSS members but not here. Ibn Batuta reported on the cruelty of the Madurai Sultanate which alarmed him even though the victims were Kafirs. They were relieved by Vijayanagar conquests.

 What is your point?? The very fact that a Sultanate was established in the deep bottom South speaks volumes about the supposed martial culture of Dravidians.

The martial culture of Rajputs allowed the Turkic invaders,Khilji and Kafur in particular to wade through them as if it was a lily field. Vira Pandya and Khilji showed great valor and resistance against the Turks.


Quote:
Khilji and Malik Kafur were successful where North Indian Hindus had failed, yes even Ashoka whose hold over southern India was more tenuous than we imagine. Yes, whats your point. 

Yes and that is why Perso-Islamic Turko-Afghans were superior to Hindus, which is somehow not obvious to you.

Eh? When did I ever deny Turko Afghans had a superior military organization. I just said they were not some unstoppable as some invincible entity as some bootlickers claim.


THe same Khilji and Kafur easily overran Rajputs and got their queens as trophies. Kakatiyas and Pandyas actually offered some strong resistance even if they eventually succumbed. And yes their resistance was more resilient than Rajputs but then I never mocked Rajputs over that as its in bad taste. 


This is one of your most hilarious claims so far. Please show us how the South Indian resistance was greater than the one showed in North India.  

Rajputs were not completely subdued even after centuries of continuous Muslim campaigns, while South Indians were wiped out in a single campaign. Other posters will also be interested in how South Indian resistance was great. Please explain this. 

I think it is obvious why this guy had me banned. The embarassment for him is just too much to bear. Rajputs werent subdued!! Yes that is why they offered themselves as canon fodder to Akbar and their women to the Mughal and Turkic beds. This guy is a joke a minute.

It took many campaings by Khilji and Malik Kafur to finish the Kakatiyas. Vira Pandya performed hit and run tactics on Kafur which he was unable to counter.


LOL, what ignorance and complexes. First off Bahmanids had imported a very large number of Persians, Afghans, Central Asians etc etc. So much so that one of the reason for the break up was resentment by native converts who were fewer and slowly rising up the food chain in the heirarchy over their treatment. Hindus didnt start enlisting in southern Deccan sultanates until well after Talikota but offering their daughters to harems were unknown unlike Rajputs. And there is no such thing as a Muslim Kamma, Muslim Velama or Muslim Reddy but there are Muslim Rajputs up the ying yang. 

Do you even read what I write? 

There is not much worth reading in there.

You yourself say that Bahmanid nobility was partly native, which is what I was saying. 

No you were saying that North Indian sultanates had mostly Afghan and Turkic which were superior to native infantry and hence Rajputs had a tougher time. I showed you that Bahmanids were similar in the ethnic make up of their nobility and their army and now you shift the goal posts to say "oh that is what I was saying anyway"!

Anyway, the more tolerant Sultanates like Bijapur relied more on native convert and even Hindu nobility than Bahmanids. But you seem to ignore or not understand most of what I write.

It is generally a good idea to ignore dishonest self serving propagandists.


By the way, the Rajput ladies burnt themselves before any Turk got their hands on them. A practice of such honour is unseen in South Indian history. 

LOL there are tons of Sati stones in south India. Anyway I am not aware of any Rajput ladies burning themselves in Mughal harems. Please show me this.



Dude, seriously how old are you. ANd what is your real world work experience. I am not saying this to be snide but you seem to be thoroughly lacking in leadership and management abilities by these statements. I have run a company and was in a management position for many years. A very basic rule is this - you own whatever goes wrong rather than blaming it on your subordinates. So with Marathas, never mind Pindharis did this or that. Fact is then ,why did they hire them. Maratha apologists rather than own the fact that Marathas arent perfect make these types of lame excuses. I admire the Marathas a great deal and no I dont believe they are originally south Indian lol but they do have some south Indian cultural influence in their names, religious rituals etc etc. Their glories and warts are their own and no one elses. I neither subscribe to British historian slander about the later Maratha nor to Maratha nationalists. My take is simple- earlier Marathas were noble people filled with a sacred mission but later Peshwas really perverted the Maratha zeal in mercenary adventurism and alienated needlessly a lot of allies. Heck even Naga sadhus chose to fight for Abdali at Panipat. I actually am sympathetic to Rajputs in this matter. 


You have run a company? Really? Because you do not seem to be old enough to run a company to me. And do you even know what you are trying to prove? In this same post you have both defended and insulted the Marathas. You seem to be confused whether you should consider them as North Indians or South Indians.

Once again the tired and pathetic trope of witless posters simply copying my insults. Dude come up with some of your own. What I am trying to prove is that distancing Pindharis from Marathas doesnt work at all. If you had an ounce of leadership in your bones you would know this. But I am guessing you are simply a chaiwalla in an office.


Regarding pindaris, again what are you trying to prove? Do you even have a clue what we are debating about or you are just posting your random thoughts combined with some insults?

Atleast my insults are original which is more than I can say for yours.


As for my opinion, using Pindaris for raiding and in wars was not unconventional. They were first hired by Muslims, but as power shifted to the Marathas, Pindaris started following Maratha raiding bands. Later when Marathas become very weak due to constant wars with Afghans and with British, they had no power to successfully control Pindaris, and they became bands of independent looters and marauders. Very naturally, Marathas effectively used them to raid British territories, which is purely pragmatic. If I were the Peshwa, I would have done the same.

Of course you would because you are an idiot. If you were Peshwa , the subcontinent would be one giant Pakistan , so thank god that didnt come to pass.


As usual you miss my point. It is exactly because Jats have no strong kingdoms or resources does their resistance become all the more admirable! Agreed their annexation of large parts of Mughal territories was admirable, and what do you mean by resistance? All they did was carving out their kingdoms from the regions with declining Mughal authority. Mughals were no power to resist when the Jats were flourishing. And fyi, this also happened in Rajasthan where directly ruled Mughal territories like Ajmer were annexed by previously tiny Rajput states.

My point about Jats was that they showed more spirited resistance than Rajputs even as they had no resources. They practically ruled the environs of Delhi and so did the Marathas. But not the Rajputs whose backyard it was. Again why are boasting about Rajputs when such a pathetic showing. And you are not even Rajput but Brahmin from Haryana. Jeez I heard that Haryanvis were knuckleheads but I thought those were just the Jats. If Brahmins have such low IQ I shudder to think of what the peasant Jats are like!


Quote:
My point about Stockholm syndrome about many north Indian Rajputs and brahmins vis a vis Turks stands I did not know admiring Ataturk means Stockholm Syndrome.

So apparently admiring Ataturk(Bhrigus previous avatar was Kemal Ataturk) - a man who admired and praised Turkic domination over half the known world including Khilji et al is not Stockholm Syndrome. This Bhrigu is one step away from offering his wife and sister to a random Turk and then patting himself on the back for his courage in doing so!


LOL I didnt know Vijayanagar had fewer churches than Byzantium! As usual you miss the analogy. My point was Vijayanagar was an empire centred around a city besieged by Turks much like Byzantium. Anyway the comparision of architecture is ridiculous. Byzantine is as old as Christendom, Vijayanagar was barely 300 years old when it was destroyed. Interestly they were destroyed approximately the same time.  

As for Vijayanagar being a jungle...LOL I didnt know jungles were considered world Heritage sites! 

So does being a kingdom based around a city and destroyed by Turks makes you somehow great??? 

I never said being destroyed by Turks makes us great? What the heck are you talking about. So Vijayanagar stops being great because it was destroyed? Where is the Rajput Vijayanagar, if there was nothing worthy of destroying in Rajput lands, that is not our problem?

And as usual, you do not understand the jokes, the point was that Vijayanagar is a ruinous village today, while Chittor is an alive city with more numerous monuments and fortifications to boast of (and a World heritage site as well ). 

Chittor is a dump like most north Indian towns paritcularly those in Rajasthan and UP. What part of Vijayanagar was destroyed but revitalized further down south in Penukonda dont you understand?


If Vijayanagar was in Mewar...blah blah..there is a reason I dont participate in the Speculative history section. Butterfly effect and all that. 

This is how you have carefully avoided the point regarding geography.

No I have not but you have carefully avoided the subject of Rajput women in Muslim harems...



So I should praise Rajputs for awesome military ability but not hold it against them than an "inferior" Kannadiga were able to get their hands on some guns. Got it! 

No you should not. Because the reason why Kannadigas had guns was again some Turks, while no neighbour of Mewar had any knowledge of guns. I do not understand how Mewar is supposed to innovate firearms on its own when everyone from a Persian to a Bengali is ignorant of it.


Then more fool Mewaris as they were ignorant and backward even as a good number of Rajputs from Mewar and elsewhere served Vijayanagar and other southern kingdoms.



This is really funny. Golkonda a petty state but Malwa and Gujarat awesome military forces Golkonda was a byword for power and prestige down to the present day(check the eponymous paintings by Rene Magritte). Also if ill armored army of peasants were able to hold off the Turks for so long and the better armed Rajputs were barely as successful so I suppose we should celebrate the peasants shouldnt we. LOL logic fail on your part once again. LOL. 

Do you even know what you are saying?? Golconda was hardly a "byword for power" when Devaraya was alive.

Yes it was and even later. Golkonda held off Aurgangzebs forces for nearly 8 months which other north Indian kingdom did that.

 And yes, a million strong naked peasant army is perhaps better than some 20,000 outnumbered and heavily efficient Rajput cavalry.(smiley face)

Actually it is , because these so called naked peasant army shows that the martial culture is well dispersed throughout south India and not restricted to some parasitic elites who offer their own daughters,sisters and wives to the harems of a Muslim ruler just so they can hang on to their kingdoms. The peasant army of Rashtrakutas was considered the best infantry in India.The scantily clad Nairs  bested repeatedly the Portuguese,British and the Dutch not to mention Tipu Sultan. Wellington himself was in awe of them. British recruited heavily from Tamil and Telugu peasant castes whom they admired for their courage and they got the best of Rajputs in various wars in the 1800s.


Yes Vijaynagar power was decentralized in smaller "nadus"- so what? There was much less potential for tyranny and oppression in that manner. 


So what???!!!!!  This single argument easily gives readers a true idea about your experience in the field of history, which is extremely minimal. Vijayanagar was decentralised not because they did not want "tyranny" or that this system was efficient, but because the emperor lacked any sort of power to control his subordinates. This is highly disastrous as most times, most of revenue from the Tamil Nayakas never reached the emperor, and at times even some chieftains were more powerful than the emperor himself. The only reason why they accepted Vijayanagar's overlordship was to derive legitimacy for their rule out of it. This is the classic case of extremely inefficient administration and highly decentralised nature of Hindu kingdoms.


Needs more exclamation points....any way you are just as clueless about economics and governance as you are about politics and history. A strong centralized empire will lead almost to utter collapse of every aspect of society. This is what happened to Persia and Central Asia which is why they fell so easily to Islam. All a emperor has to do is ensure law and order, collect taxes and levy troops, thats it! What more does one need? As for revenue not reaching the emperor, how exactly did Vijayanagar become the awesome metroplis it once was. What was Chittor again? Oh yes a dump then and a dump now.