Monday, August 31, 2015

More Oakish fantasies courtesy of our Hindutvadi friends


I came across this crank on Sabhlok's blog who left a comment around last year. Apparently a lot of this rubbish is courtesy of a Stephen Knapp who seems to have taken up the mantle on PN Oak of finding Hinduism in every nook and corner of the ancient world. Its best to dispel these before they gain further currency ala Sanskrit is the perfect language for developing software , Vikramaditya ruled Kaaba or Taj Mahal was a Hindu palace.


(My comments in Italics)


see, we have to look at it this way. People from Hindu vedic culture migrated to other parts of the world and founded all the advanced civilizations of the world.
We have 3 proofs.
1. Archaeological evidence – eg from south American Temples (Mayan) to Stonehenge in Britain

No evidence for either being derived from Hinduism.

The Hindu temples abounded in ancient Britain when Vedic culture pervaded the West. It has been already explained above that place-names ending in ‘shire’ testify to the existence of Shiva temples.w

No. Shire simply means village. From which we get shire rief(head of village) , later shortened to "sheriff" which was used for mayors of frontier towns and currently in law enforcement.


 Ancient Hindu temples lie in unrecognizable ruins throughout Great Britain and Ireland.

If they are unrecognizable then how do you know they are Hindu temples Mr. Smartypants?

 Christian fanaticism prevents modern European scholars from publicizing them.

Please provide proof of this bias. Modern European scholars aren't known to be Christian fanatics but secularists who are often hostile to Christianity. Therefore they would be more receptive to such pro Hindu views.

One such famous temple existed on the Hill of Tara, alias Taragarh, (in today’s Indian parlance), in Ireland. The Hill of Tara consequently a sacred site on which Sanskrit-speaking Hindu Kshatriya kings used to be crowned for centuries. A 5000 years-old Vedic temple was discovered late in 1997 A. D. in Stanton Drew village in Somerset.

To be sure , it was used to consecrate Irish kings but no evidence to show they were Kshatriya. The name Tara is intriguing as such a word doesn't commonly exist in the Celtic or Anglo Saxon languages.
I wasn't unable to find out when the town was named Tara as that may yield more clues. But as of now we cant assume it was a Vedic temple.

Another famous temple is the wel-known stonehenge. It has been carbon-dated to be of 2000 B. C. The temple has astronomical marking to chart the raising and setting of the sun and moon. Its presiding deity used to be taken in a procession to the Avon river three miles away. The deity was so consecrated as to be illumined by the rising sun’s rays on the longest day. These are all hindu Vedic traditions.

No the association of the sun with the divine and resurrection was a universal phenomenon. One does need to be a Hindu to see that the sun was a good thing for sustenance and therefore worthy of worship.
These customs described above were present in all Neolithic cultures to one degree or another.

 Ancient churches throughout Great Britain and Europe are astronomically oriented which proves that they are captured Hindu temples since Hindus were the only people known to be shaping their lives day after day on astronomical considerations at that remote age.

What nonsense. Egyptians and Babylonians to name a couple also constructed their structures keeping the movement of suns, planets and stars in mind.

 The information about the Stonehenge and its above-mentioned implications is recorded in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Godfrey Higgin’s book titled “The Celtic Druids” leads valuable evidence indicating that Hindu had colonized the British isles long before the Roman conquest. That book, published in 1829 A. D. is available in the British Museum library in London. Under Roman rule London was known as Londonium. This is a corruption of the much ancient Sanskrit terms Nondanium signifying a pleasing place.

Hahaha no!

2. Etymological evidence

Oh god here we go with the donkey etymologies...

1. Bhumi (Indian sanskrit word for earth) -> Humi and Humus -> Humans
we are humus beings or bhumi beings.

Why not hummus as in the Lebanese /Palestinian dish made of chickpeas? Since these were an early component of diets of Neolithic man. Ashes to ashes, humans to hummus I suppose LOL

2. Sanskrit: Amaraka (land of immortals) -> America (both North and South)

Absolute garbage. Show ONE reference that America was called Amarka before Amerigo Vespucci , the Italian navigator who discovered the mainland ten years after Columbus voyage to the new World.

3. Sanskrit: Brihat-sthan (Great land or Island) -> Britain. In course of time Brihatsthan was corrupted to Britain in popular speech. That Britain itself signified ‘the Great’ isles was forgotten but the memory of ‘greatness’ persisted while the Sanskrit connotation was forgotten. That led to the addition of the objective ‘Great’ which explains the current name Great Britain.

Complete rubbish. The British were named actually for tribe in France called the Brittani(today known as Bretons) by Julius Caesar as he was informed that the group of people who resided in the islands of Britain  was the same as in northern France. At the time, both Britain and France were Celtic populated, so that was a fair assumption to make.
Out of curiosity, as per the ancients what was so great about the islands?

The term Anglo-Saxon is Sanskrit ‘Angla Saka Sunuh’ implying the descendants of the Sakas in England. Surnames like Peterson, Anderson, Jacobson are of the Sanskrit, Hindu tradition of describing a person as son of such and such.

No,no and no. However there was a trend for a while of people naming themselves after Scythians and some Englishmen while not claiming to be descended from the lost tribes of Israel decided that they were related to Sakas and assumed the same donkey etymology as "proof"

 In some cases the English ending ‘Son’ is the earlier Hindu ending ‘Sen’.

Sen doesn't mean son stupid. Any Bengali can inform you of this.

Thus Anderson is the English corruption of the Hindu name indrasen.

Hahaha, no!

 Ireland is Arya Sthan

On firmer ground. Indeed Ireland as called by the native population is Erie which is a corruption of Arya. It finds its way into girls names such a Erin.

and Scotland is Kshatra-sthan.

Nope, the original Scots were not Celtic but probably a Germanic people who got Celticized. They have their own colorful mythology of being descended from an Egyptian princess named Scotta but no mention of "Kshatra"


 Wales in Sanskrit signifies a seaside region.

No

4.Sanskrit: Devaneshwar (Land of gods) -> Devonshire

No

5.Sanskrit: Ramstan, (“Place of Lord Rama) -> Ramstein

Hahaha

6. Sanskrit: Daityasthan, “Land of the Daityas” -> Deutchland

Evidence? Deutch simply means people in German language.Similar to volk or folk in English.

7. Sanskrit: Sharman (Common hindu surname) -> German

LOL, Sharman isn't really a common name. But Sharma and Sarma is. This is a Brahmin surname. Why would Brahmins spawn the German race? I hope it is not a reverse AIT where instead of German invaders spawning Aryan Brahmins, Brahmins armed with kudumi and Vedas produce Germanic warriors!
Jokes aside. The first mention of Germans was from Julius Caesar. In Latin it means a people with both sets of parents. Which perhaps distinguished from the Gaul who had a very hyper sexual society where parentage of the offspring was in question!

8. Sanskrit: Palustin (Vedic sage) -> Palestine

This is new from the Palisthan claim (land of Pali speakers) courtesy of a certain someone. Palestine actually owes its origin to a people called Filistim- a mixed Northern European and Minoan people subscribing to Hellenic culture who settled Gaza around the same time as the Israelites. They are better known as Philistines and their giant leader Goliath. The Romans intending to punish and humiliate the Jews after the Bar Kochba revolt and the destruction of the Temple decided to rename the land after one of their worst enemies. And Filistim was Romanized to Palestine. And it stuck.

9. Sanskrit: Skanda + Naviya ->Skanda is the son of Lord Siva. Naviya is Sanskrit for naval settlement. Scandinavians were the mariner descendants of the Vedic ksatriyas who worshipped Skanda.

No evidence to show they worshipped Skanda

10. Sanskrit: Moksha (Salvation) -> Moscow

Hahaha. No reason for it to change. Russians have no problem pronouncing Moksha. Only someone thoroughly ignorant of the Russian language would make such a claim.

11. Sanskrit: Astral-alaya, “(Land of the missiles)”.- Australia

Where are the missiles you speak of? And where is it mentioned? Anyway Australia is named for the Latin word Austral which means simply Southern due to its location. Austral is also used to describe the southern counterpart to the Northern Lights (Aurora Borealis) which is Aurora Australis.

12. Jerusalem
Sanskrit: Yadu-isha-layam — The township of Lord Krsna. Yadu – dynasty of Lord Krsna, Isha – God, alayam – abode or place.

How did Krishna end up in Jerusalem? He never strayed beyond the borders of Bharatavarsha except to possibly counter Yavana(unknown West Asians) attacks off the coast of Dwaraka.

13. Judaism
Sanskrit: Yaduism — The Yadu dynasty which Lord Krsna appeared in. It is common for the y and j to become interchangeable hence, Yaduism, Yeduism and finally Judaism.

No , it is named for Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel.He had nothing to do with Yadu or Krishna

14. Israel
Sanskrit: Ishwaralaya, “The abode of Isha – God”.

No, Israel is  IS RA EL or one who struggles with god (small g ) . Jacob was so renamed after he wrestled with an angel through out the night and prevailed.

15. Soviet
Sanskrit: Svet, “White as in white snow covered region”.

This will be news to the now aged commissars of the Party!

16. Russia
Sanskrit: Rishiya, “Land of the Rishis”.

If this is the land of Rishis, why didn't it get more attention in our culture?
Anyway it is named for Rus or a Viking longboat which was used to colonize the Western regions of the great Eurasian plain(now known as Russia)

17. Shalome
Sanskrit: Ishalayam, “The abode of God”. Ishalayam – shalayam – shalome.

Seriously donkey etymology.

18. Adam
Sanskrit: aadim, “The first or most ancient man”.

No.

19. Abraham
Sanskrit: Brahma, “Vedic God”.

No.

20. Korea
Sanskrit: Gauriya, “Gouri, Vedic Goddess”.

The problem with this nonsense claim is that Korean descriptive is a modern one. Hang Guk is how it was known in the past. From which you the pejorative "gook" for East and South East Asians that caught on with a few Americans after the Korean war. For eg. 2008 presidential candidate John McCain speaking of his experiences as  a POW in Vietnam "I hate those fucking gooks"

21. Danube river
Sanskrit: Danuv — the Daityas were also known as the Danuv community due to Kashyapa munis marriage to Danu, who is also known as one of the primary Goddesses of the celts.

No

22. England
Sanskrit: Angulistan — Angulistan-Anguliand-England.

The land of fingers. Well at least the middle finger which the English seem to find indispensable while driving or at football games. So you maybe onto something there Sherlock.
Anyway England is named after Angles , people hailing from Denmark who merged with Saxons from Germany(there is still an area called Saxony) to form Anglo Saxons which was the base population of English speakers in England until the Norman Conquest radically Latinized the culture and language and Francized the gentry.

23. Egypt
Sanskrit: Ajapati — Lord Rama, the illustrious scion of Aja. Their kings were named Ramses meaning Rama the God.

Nooo. Egypt is a Greek corruption of Alhapta or the house of the Divine. Neighboring  Semitic peoples referred to it as Misr


24. Stein
Sanskrit: Stan, “Place”.

No . Stein is German for stone.

25. Siberia
Sanskrit: Shibeerya, “The locals still call their land Shibir”.

This proves absolutely nothing

26. Caspean sea
Sanskrit: Kashyapa muni, “Named after the Vedic sage”.

Possibly. I have heard a strong argument that Iranians thought highly of Kashyapa and after separating from the Vedic fold named the lake after him.

Indian/Vedic/Dharmic civilization is the mother of all civilizations.

Mere assertion is not enough.

Indian sanskrit – the mother of all languages.

No. Its hardly established it has anything to do with even Tamil which is under its cultural umbrella!

Hindu/vedic people migrated to Europe, central asia, Asia, Africa, Russia and other places Vedic civilization was the pre-eminent culture and faith of the entire world in ancient times.

No. These cultures had little to do with Hinduism.

 It was also prevalent throughout the Pacific region from India to Malaysia, Indonesia, Borneo, Korea, Indochina, the Philippines, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and farther east and up to Mexico.

See above.


Eventually, descendants of Hindu/vedic culture were forcibly converted by desert religions (Christianity and Islam),

Wait a minute. If Islam and Christianity were derived from Hinduism, then by your logic no one has left Hinduism at all. Indeed it could be argued that these religions maintained older Hindu customs whiles Hindus in India got corrupted. So Christian and Muslim converts are true Hindu and Hindus in India are corrupt and degenerate!

Churches and Mosques were built on the same location of Hindu temples after its destruction. Current, stupid historians funded by vatican called it Pagan religion.

Which current historians are funded by the Vatican? Pagan is simply Latin for countryside or villages as during Christianity, the worship of various Roman and Germanic gods had receded to the villages. Similar to how during the Islamic conquest in India, Hindus would hold out in villages and jungles as Muslims captured the power centres ie. the cities.
Nowadays in the West there is a reverse dynamic where the rural areas are very Christian while the urban cosmopolitans are open to different religions including pagan ones such as Hinduism, Shintoism or Western variants such as Astartu(popular with white supremacists) and Druidism.

Nice try. Try to de-link from sanskrit, which NASA acknowledged the best programming language.

They never claimed any such thing. Anyhow what do you care about the opinions of the redneck Christian riff raff which comprise NASA?

It is a different story how Backus and Naur stole from Sanskrit grammar and put their names under the world’s first computer programming language.

I said it before and I say it again. If all these Western so called thieves created such amazing inventions and discovered from lifting ideas from the Vedas then more shame to Hindus for whom Vedas were idle chants or gathering dust.

The credit should go to Indian Hindu and Sanskrit grammarian Panini (3100 BC) . The father of first programming language.

He was a great linguist. He showed no aptitude or interest in programming. India had great proto programmers ie logicians but Panini wasn't one of them. And Panini existed around the time of Chandragupta Maurya(supposedly a fellow instructor of Chanakya at Taxila). So that puts him closer to 310 BC rather than 3100 BC(death of Lord Krishna).

Origin of Music
Hindu Vedic Music is the basis of world music. German Author, Weber writes in his book on ” Indian Literature”
” The Hindu Scale – Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, Nee, has been borrowed by Persians, where we find it in the form of do, re, ma, fa, so, le, ci. It came to the west and was introduced by Guido d’ Arezzo in Europe in the form of do, re, mi, fa, sol, lo, ti …. even the gamma of Guido (French Gramma, English Gammut) goes back to the Hindu Sanskrit gramma and Prakrit gamma and is thus a direct testimony of the Indian/Hindu origin of our European scale of seven notes”.

Ok I am sympathetic to this view. The similarity is too strong to be a coincidence.

Above origin of music is just a random example of how, no matter which aspect of life so called modern scholars pick up for investigation, they are willy nilly led to the Indian, Hindu, Vedic, Sanskrit origin of Human culture

Origin of scales is not the same as origin of music. Im sure non Hindus had music before they became aware of the seven notes. Why do you deny others their humanity? For gods sake aren't others able to figure out music without our help?

India was the motherland of our race, and Sanskrit the mother of European languages. She was the mother of our philosophy … of our mathematics … of the ideals embodied in Christianity … of self government and democracy…mother India is in many ways the mother of us all.
— William Durant. Author of the ten volume, story of civilization.

Will Durant was a great scholar but also given to great hyperbole and wild (though pleasant sounding)rhetoric. Please keep that in mind. And FYI he was often spectacularly wrong on Indian history.


Only a few open-minded people who look at the whole picture will understand the inherent unity the world and what its history contains. Such unity is disturbed only by mankind’s immature, dogmatic, and self-centered feelings for regional and cultural superiority. We have seen this in the propaganda that was effectively used by the Nazis and is presently used by neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups who now employ the modern myth that the original location of the Aryan race was in northern Europe.


All I can say in conclusion is that Hindutvadis of this sort seem to believe that the ancient world was comprised of primitive apes and Hinduism was the black monolith as in 2001 Space Odyssey and hence civilization was spread throughout disparate people who god forbid weren't even able to worship the sun, cook food, sing ,dance or worship gods without our help! I would say that this version of history is even more bizarre as in 2001 while the aliens inspired apes to evolve (using bones as tools) but also recognized the great capacity for brutality and connection between violence and  technological progress( one ape kills another with a bone and the triumphalist throws it in the air and scene cuts to a space ship).
Orson Welles put it best-
“You know what the fellow said – in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock"

But no not our hyper patriots. Not only are they determined to strip non Hindus of any ability , hog all their glories but ascribe warts squarely on them. If they create great monuments, works of art or religious and philosophical works, why it is the Vedic influence of course. But if they indulge in rapine, genocide, slavery and other less than wholesome ventures well that must be their "chinkie" ,"Jap" , white racist, " crooked Jew", "primitive Negro" genes acting up!
And then they complain when we see them as supremacists on par with Nazis! To my mind this type of spiritual imperialism and misappropriation is in effect every bit as loathsome and criminal as Nazi racism and sense of superiority . Both of which stem from ignorance and intense inferiority complexes.