Hello crappy Indian Special Forces: Watch Fauda
Velupillai Prabhakaran claimed that he owed his superior tactical strategy by watching Delta Force and Rambo movies. Of course that is hyperbole to show his appreciation for those films. But action scenes movies with military advisers such as Michael Mann's Heat and Ridley Scott's Black Hawk Down have been know to inspire real life incidents with mostly criminals and terrorists putting using those tactics against local authorities and foreign armies.
Therefore I would recommend that Indian Special Forces to drop whatever dumbass training they are engaging in and just watch the Israeli TV series whose actors were actual operatives in hostile Arab territories and were decorated for it. Sure beats whatever crap they are doing right now. Fire their leaders and just led Andy McNabb and Lior Raz run the show. After all Indians have given their national ego a kicking when they hired foreign coaches to train highly unathletic players in the lame, anemic game of cricket. And lets be real, Indians love cricket more than they love their military otherwise they would do something about jawans becoming servants to general or sending them without proper weapons or armor. But Im told thats not the case because they shout Jai Hind at the top of their lungs, salute a veteran and frequently retweet a pro military message. So I guess Im wrong. Ok withdrawn.
Hahaha no. Indian military's mediocrity will be exposed one way or another ala 26/11 and the national inflated ego will get a well deserved puncture . It is ongoing on a smaller scale as Naxalites run circles around them. But a reckoning is coming. Its only a matter of time.
But is not the Indian Army winning against the Naxalites? It seems to be the case now. Indian Army personnel were celebrating after capturing key villages from them last year.
ReplyDeleteThe Indian Army is not adequately supported by New Delhi. They are forced to fight with inadequate and obsolete weapons which they are doing so well against all odds. But yes, they need to change their training for the better.
Indian army has been congratulating itself for victory over the Naxalites since the 1990s. I am skeptical for a reason.
DeleteThe problem with any army is not so much the men . There is no shortage of courage among Indian troops . Thats not what I am accusing them of. BUt operational effectiveness and training for various missions is rather lacking. ALl the courage in the world will not make up for subpar training. This is what Julius Caesar realized when he saw the Gauls were more courageous and Germans were bigger but Romans were more disciplined and trained and hence he knew he would prevail upon them.
Smaller countries such as Sri Lanka and Pakistan Special Forces are far superior to India. Heck Indonesia and Malaysia are quite good. The gold standard for special forces must be Guatamala, their training is something most countries dont wish to emulate as they dont wish to be castigated by their citizens when trainees die.
And of course SAS of U.K all things considered is probably still the best when it comes to scope, experience and reach.
Generally speaking smaller countries have better SF because they have to I suppose.
If Pakistan Special forces were good enough, they won't invest on deep state which is their strength. The best tactic they know is to blur lines between state, non state forces. Blur lines between local insurgents and cross border militancy. Pakistan is good at Information warfare which India didn't possess much before Balakot bombings.
DeleteYes this has been their MO since Kargil atleast. The "militants" fighting Indians often had Pakistani army ids on their person.
DeleteOne may say that 26/11 was Pakistan special forces operation which while lacking honor(which cannot be expected from Pakistan) was successful.
My point was that special forces are the best face of a military. If Indian elite forces are not very good then I shudder to think of the rank and file army who dont even have proper weapons.
Hi YSV Rao,
ReplyDeleteRecently came across your blog. I have to say we have similar thinking. As for this post, are you sure Indian army is fighting Naxalites as last time I have heard it was the CRPF and state police forces.
One interesting account by a CRPF special force (CoBRA)guy in an AMA in reddit has said that, when it comes to counter insurgency AP Greyhounds is the best in India. He rated Greyhounds above Indian army's PARA SF.
Thanks
Indian army used to fight Naxalites with mixed success. Nowadays they offer supports to these units which you mentioned. I should have clarified it.
DeleteYes Greyhounds are very effective. Generally police STFs tend to be of high quality. I always find it frustrating that Indian police are demeaned compared to the military.
Yes , of course there is considerable corruption in the police but there is in the military as well. For some reason the latter is rarely addressed.
Ysv
DeleteU can't even address corruption in the military ,soon u will be hounded with pics of martyrs. Yet they don't realise that it is the corruption that leads to adarsh type scams and then deprives the genuine martyrs' families.
Generally in close quarter combat ,I would prefer a police swat group to navy seal type commandoes .simply because the police actually deal with a lot of said and unsaid encounter situations ,they have hell lot of experience under belt even though they are indeed corrupted :)
As for Indian police,two major restraints are there- one is the IPC act that needs solid modernisation and reforms of archaic procedures .the other is proper numerical advantage of policing .
Ysv
ReplyDeleteIt's not by personal bravery that USA destroys Iraq or Afghanistan,this thing about personal bravery and military efficiency need to be understood ,for that I guess u need extensive updations and research on military strategy .sadly Indians are believing that they can beat China like a pulp . Meanwhile China is targeting the next economic leap ,most likely it won't engage in a full scale war with India only for that ,as it would be a fruitless exercise for them .
Ysv this might interest u ,one ex special force ranger of USA argues that no nation in the world actually needs special forces . He is of the opinion that numerical superiority of equipments and manpower in a generalised large force is always better than keeping a small contingent of special forces. As he says ,swimming with legs tied in mud as they make navy seals do ,doesn't actually help in any real battle scenario . He opines that personal stamina doesn't determine the win ,but equipments and gadgets do . Though I am not much experienced on this field ,I personally believe that nations with frequent internal bushes do need a dedicated special force just to tackle those encounters ,like SWAT of USA .
In the border conflict with the chinese a month the Indian soldiers physically came out on top. This does not mean they will perform well against the Chinese military machine.
DeleteDuring the Napoleanic invasions, many German intellectuals wrote about how embarassing and humiliating it was that a smaller ,weaker race such as the French could lord over Germans.
The English soldier on average was considerably shorter than the Indian soldier around the 18th century.
However we all know how that turned out.
I dont know what that guy is talking about. Without special forces how will hostage rescue attempts, infiltrations, targetted assasinations and extraction work?
You cant swat a fly with a tank.
As for his views on training. Hahaha. Without training and stamina a soldier is pretty useless. All those training may not neccesarily be useful in a real life scenario but it is meant to make the body adaptable to any scenario by constantly bombarded it with challenges. This has a psychological as well as physical function.
You may have to jump out of planes or helicopters,climb hills, swim across rivers and seas, brave heat and cold in a very short time frame . NOt to mention the firefights and physical challenges involved int the actual operation. No out of shape person can manage these. No matter how many gadgets he possesses.
I doubt very much that this guy served in the special forces and was involved in any operations.
Ysv
Deletehttps://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-blog-about-military-matters/117715203-seal-hype-now-even-attacked-by-seals. Actually if u are interested,here is the link to his opinion . Though he sounds pretty drastic for his ideas ,even being a former ranger himself .
Btw ysv even on physical skirmishes ,u really can't be sure as to whether Indian army did stand apart by their single man strength or that they just outnumbered the Chinese in that terrain and under that context . Either way as u said, it's silly to assume China would bring sticks and stones to fight a real war with India .
But as for the national perspective,neither India nor China is in a position to be at war ,both countries need a long span of peaceful economic collaboration instead of a useless war. India clashing with Pakistan has deeper historical contexts and deep rooted civilizational issues ,but China and India fighting it out for barren land stretches make no sense . It's better both nations realise this and rather cooperate .
Welcome back Jam!
ReplyDeleteLet us get some facts straight:
1. We are not staring at a potential Cold War, we are officially in the Second Cold War between the United States and China.
2. Unlike the USSR which relied too heavily on revenue from exporting oil/natural gas and military hardware (Russia continues the same economic model today), China has tycoons in every industrial sector. This will make the Chinese challenge a huge one for the West.
3. Unlike the United States where corporate entities and the govt are different, in China, there is not a single sector that is not intertwined with not just the Chinese govt but also the PLA.
4. China has ensnared entire continents in debt. They can command and get their resources anytime they wish. In addition to Pakistan and Sri Lanka, they literally have a colony in Africa that used to be a country called Zambia. Heck they are even making their way to the tiny Pacific islands!
5. That China is economically, politically and militarily superior to India is something I need not mention. China is not the United States or Britain to respect the will of the people and cede space respecting international norms. They not only flout international norms, they also modify them to suit their needs. See WHO.
6. India does not have a misunderstanding with China right now, China is determined to subdue or wipe out India. That is what their actions reflect. I am not too sure what the Chinese are thinking right now.
7. Since the PLA is superior to the Indian Army, making peace with China at this point of time is essentially ceding more and more to Chinese demands. The militarily superior party has the advantage and they can start and end a conflict/engagement at their will. It is obvious whom I am referring to when it comes to India and China.
8. While Pakistan and India certainly have a civilizational conflict as Jam mentions, at this point of time, the Chinese threat is far far bigger than any other threat in India's long history. We definitely need to learn from the past but right now the scenario has completely changed.
9. I have been following Pravin Sawhney, ex-Indian Army officer, for quite sometime now.
https://twitter.com/PravinSawhney
He (and Ghazala Wahab) wrote the book "Dragon on Our Doorstep". Sawhney will soon release another book "Wars India Should Prepare For This Century". He was the one who mentioned that India needs to make peace with the neighborhood starting with Pakistan since India is militarily stronger than them. Is that not logical? It sure sounds absurd initially, but I thought deeply about this and it is starting to make more sense.
10. It was not only on June 19 but also very recently that India has abandoned the 1993 claim and accepted PLA's 1959 LAC claim.
https://twitter.com/airnewsalerts/status/1306119325632417792
And who can blame the Indian govt for it? Making peace with China is essentially ceding more and more to their demands because China is militarily far more superior.
11. India still continues to fiddle with 4G while China has integrated 5G into its military. China is far ahead of India in EW, biotechnology, cyber warfare, the Internet of Things, machine learning and artificial intelligence.
12. Why would China engage India in the battlefield where India has a chance to win? China will escalate the war from the physical domain to the cyber and virtual domains where India literally has no answer.
13. If you thought Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh were bad enough, wait for a few more years when the Chinese will lay claims to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands!
There is so much that can be said about the Chinese threat. I will pause here.
Carcinogeist
DeleteGood to see u Bhai :) _/\_ it's indeed after far too long a time that I have pledged to frequent and be active on ysv blog ,I have learnt so many things from this blog and the discussions that it was wrong of me to not visit this blog atleast in the meantime ,in my spree to reduce social media time :) but anyway past can't be undone ,here onwards I shall try to spend more time here :D _/\_
I more or less agree with u overall on China. I was just of the opinion that India&China need not fall out unnecessarily. Rather quite conversely ,China's dream of being a global axis may well get manifested if they enter into a long-term economic cooperation with India . But I don't know what exactly Chinese top brass is thinking on this .
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DeleteThis might not be the correct place for this question but YSV, could you please tell more about the land ownership pattern in Andhra and telangana region in the past 500 years ? A lot of folks especially upper castes claim that they gave away their zamindari lands to the indian republic post independence only to be harassed continously by the state later , however my undestanding is that at least in eastern india(bihar, bengal, orissa), zamindars didn't use to be de-jure owners of the land prior to the british period, its only in the british period that they were given permanent ownership over the land(so 1000s of acres of land that zamindars had around independence were not theirs' to begin with).
ReplyDeleteWas the case similar in Andhra/telaga region ?
@tim drake
DeleteLarge land holdings belonging to castes Kammas, Reddys ,Velamas and other upper castes started probably under Vijayanagar, then continued on with Qutb Shahi, later Asaf Jahi and British. during this time the caste system got increasingly stringent.
The Telangana rebellion was mostly again the Velama and Reddy landlords. The peasants generally had little idea that there was Muslim guy away in a big city like Hyderabad pulling the strings.
Similarly I had friends whose grandmothers in villages and AP and TN had no idea there were people called British ruling India!
Many Kammas particularly liquidated their holdings for sake for India which is quite a patriotic duty but the state stabbed them in the back when it engaged in the usual corruption and double dealing. Many of these turned to Naxalism.