Nationalism vs Religion Dichotomy: A response to Sagar M
Sagar M countered my arguments with perceptive insights. However I believe he is mistaken.
Rather than respond in comments , I am making a seperate post
YSV: Earlier I esquired as to the
supremacy clause of Hindutvadis- is the nation state of India or Hinduism that
defines them and which they will choose when push comes to
shove?---------------------
Sagar: For Hindutva project, blood, soul and earth are inextricably
linked mutually. Our objective is to unite all Hindu peoples into one great
Hindu state.
YSV: Yes but at what cost? And what instruments are being used to create this Hindu state. RSS wants us to subordinate Shiva to a 19th century construct Bharatmata inspired by European nationalism. As a Shaivite, to me this is the most obscene blasphemy!
Sagar: Since Hindu religion fosters pan Indian nationalism (read
Hindutvavaad) and pan Indian nationalism in turns gives protection to Hindu
religion by uniting Hindus, what sense does it makes to ask - “Hindutva or
Hinduism”. Hinduism without Hindutva is a toothless defenseless entity.
YSV: Hindutva is one of the other militant strands of Hinduism that popped up in the 18th-20th century. Due to the stature of the founder, it managed to push others aside. In the south there was no Hindutva all these years and Muslims and Christians really dont give any trouble. Apart from some rioting here and there in the old city and some hysteria over silly books like the Da Vinci code.
Sagar: At least you have a Hindu regime ruling at Delhi controlling
key States in India. This is the regime which has cut foreign funding to
anti-Hindus, cancelled registrations of anti-Hindu NGOs and bankrupted umpteen
numbers of anti-Hindu elements by demonetization and is investigating Love
Jihad cases for terror links. It may not be perfect, but what is the
alternative?
YSV: Absent the cultural effects of the elite education system, any other leader would have had the same approach of Modi. In my view the fact that Modi didn't attend these slave producing factories of Doon and St Xavier's is a plus. Narasimha Rao who spent his youth fighting the Nizam put India on the road map of a superpower and he toppled Babri Masjid. Last time I checked he wasnt a Hindutvaadi- in name anyway.
YSV: Koenraad Elst lays out the case that
Hindutvadis are worshipping a false idol of nationalism ,particularly the 19th
century European variant based on ethno linguisitic homogeniety which is a bad
fit for India.
Sagar: Savarkar has clearly stated that India is nation since the
beginning of history. A fact justified by events in ancient history like
Indians uniting to fight invaders like Arabs, Huns and Ghaznavids. It was the
same feeling to free India from alien savages which spurred Rana Sanga, Shivaji
Raje and Baji Rao. He used 19th century European nationalism only as a means
for rallying and organizing. His ideas and objectives are entirely rooted in
soil and history of India.
YSV: India was a civilization with a strong ,common religious foundation but not a nation. Let us not confuse the two. Also when Gujara Pratiharas were smashing Arabs, Rashtrakutas were appointing them as governers as used their energies to slaughter Gurjaras. So you see the problem here?
YSV:Savarkar in one of his less than bright
moments said this -"one nation, one culture,one language, one
religion" which brings us to current day BJP's assault on other modes of
Hinduism apart from the safe and sterile Brahmin Vaishya variety which is the
composition of BJP.party leadership.What is lacking is the recognition of
Kshatriya and Shudra virtues and all the meat eating , bull fighting and animal
sacrifices that come with it. Without these aspects India will remain a hollow
shell and slave state for years to come.
Sagar: Savarkar meant Hindu nation, Hindu culture, Hindu language
(not English or Urdu) and Hindu religion (not Christianity and Islam). He was
not speaking about banning Tamil or Telugu.
As for assault on other modes of Hinduism – if these other
modes of Hinduism are not fit to last, then why care for it? Besides, there is
no Hindutva project to finish off regional cultures of India except in the
minds of conspiracy theorists and rumor mongers.
YSV: When you say that one language and one culture be imposed , undermining other languages is implicit in your argument. Savarkar wasnt too found of diversity as many of those who looked to 19th century nationalism.
Sagar: You need bull fighting, meat eating and animal sacrifice not
to become a slave state?????? Facts prove otherwise. Most wrestlers from
Haryana are vegetarians. Brahmins from Eastern UP and Bihar who are vegetarians
have a rather great martial tradition. After all, did not Shivaji Raje, a five
foot five inch vegetarians slay the seven foot tall meat eating Afzal Khan?
YSV: Most of those wrestlers are Jats who have centuries of meat eating tradition. This vegetarian kick is recent and inspired by yearning to be respectable. They are basically living off the glory of their past genes which will be extinguished soon if they keep up this diet.
I don't know where you got the information that Samrat Shivaji was vegetarian but to my knowledge that is not true.
Sagar: It is mindset that matters most.
YSV: I agree with you here. I personally dont put that much stock in meat eating . But we are talking past each other because we view this issue differently. Vegetarianism as we know it today is an imposition by the non martial people ruling us and we are supposed to imbibe their placid, non confrontational baniya culture. For gods sake Gujaratis worship a form of Krishna called Rannchod, ie Krishna fleeing the battlefield(against Jarasandha and Kalayavana) in order to honor the "fact" that discretion was a better part of valor. Its not a coincidence when running from the battlefield he ended up in Gujarat. Possibly the least martial state in the union!
Sagar: Even for meat eating castes like Rajputs and Marathas, meat
was never consumed daily. In fact, it was not meat but millets which formed the
staple diet of castes who had war like career. The moment consumption of
millets fell and rice consumption increased manifold, physical fitness was also
affected adversely.
YSV: I agree that meat consumption for soldiers is not practical. Even Romans conquered Europe on a vegetarian diet. They ate the equivalent of jowar and lentils mostly. I also agree that rice is not beneficial. Rice consumption on this level is new and introduced after irrigation reforms by Arthur Cotton.
Karnataka and Kerala have the healthiest and most robust individuals in the south and I suspect it is due to consumption of millets and well beef in Kerala.
Again, vegetarian or not, they have to be part of a culture that revels in warfare and bloodsport , otherwise they might as well be the "komal rajkumari"(delicate princess) of satire.
Sagar: Biggest mistake made by Indians during last 2000 years was
the neglect of frontier areas. How do you expect Border States to fend for
themselves without support from rest of India? You say Pakistan is weak? Their
regular army is 600,000 strong with same number in reserve thus totaling over a
million soldiers. And you are not dealing with Pakistan as a country. They
represent an ideology that is inimical to Indian civilization (that is radical
Islam) and have support from their Sunni brothers abroad like Saudi Arabia and
forces like China. How do you expect small borders states to last in face of
such overwhelming threats?
Once again let us stop fighting battles of the past. There is no boogeyman to the West anymore, the Arab states are a joke militarily. The police forces of Kerala are enough to deal with most of the GCC states. Iran military is overextended and spent and are unable to get the adequate number of recruits. Not to mention they are friendly to India.
We have nothing but friends in Afghanistan, Turkmenistan,Uzbekistan, except of course for one- stan.
And this bloody stan is blocking our access to these excellent markets and trade routes. How is this acceptable from an economical standpoint. Heck Americans maybe baniyas these days but they have enough Kshatriyatana to smash any obstacle which hinders their economic growth whether the Native American tribes under Andrew Jackson, Southern rebels under Lincoln, the Caribbean under Teddy Roosevelt, the entire colonized world under FDR or pretty much the entire world under Ronald Reagan. And now Trump in China and Mexico.
And we are sitting unable to smash a pipsqueak state like Pakistan and make excuses that this or that country doesnt let us do it when doing so can make us an economic superpower? PATHETIC! And yes I apply this description to serial hugger baniya Gujarati Modi as well.
YSV: Seriously no country needs an army the size of
the Indian army to handle Pakistan.I cant really buy the argument that we need
an India with such concentrated power to handle China and Pakistan. The
Himalayas have prevented Chinese incursions for 1000s of years. It is only
their navy that has to be
checked.
Sagar: Did Alps prevent Hannibal from invading Italy? And why was
it that Romans survived Hannibal’s victories at Cannae, Trebia and Trassimeine?
One crucial reason was that they had forces that were numerous.
YSV:
1) Alps are not the Himalayas. I dare say Western Ghats and Deccan plateau are far more formidable than the Alps. Reddy chiefs and Marathas managed to give Muslims a great deal of grief thanks to thisgeography alone.
2) Romans were dedicated dedicated dedicated to destroying Carthage. From the very top- Romans senator would end each session by saying "Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse" (English: "Furthermore, (moreover) I consider that Carthage must be destroyed") to the common man and woman (see below)
Romans lost 50000 men in one day at Cannae , more than Americans lost in 8 years in the Vietnam war. A tremendous loss of life compared to Americans and the power parity between Romans and Carthiginians was closer than between the hyper power American and the humble Vietnamese peasant.
Even so Romans recovered and crushed them . So determined were the Romans that they planned for the long haul: aristocratic ladies whose men died in the war decided to mate with their male slaves so that the offspring would fight in another 15 years or so. THAT was the Roman dedication.
It goes beyond numbers my friend.
Sagar: Did anyone expect Hitler to invade Soviet Union? Why did
Soviet Union survive? One main reason was that Russian troops proved too
numerous for the Germans to deal with.
No one can predict future. In future, if we have to plunge
ourselves into bloodbaths like Punic Wars and Second World War that will cost
millions of lives, we should be ready for that.
YSV: Having 10s of millions killed for no discernible is no way to win a war. Russia is still suffering the devastation of WWII to this day when their birthrates are at an all time low and men without purpose have become alcoholics and women prostitutes. Vladimir Putin has managed to stem this tide somewhat.
It was not so much Russians but the Russian winter and Hitlers megalomania that killed the Third Reich. Let us not forget the Americans and British while being grateful to Hitler for ensuring that British would only enjoy a Pyrrhic victory leading to India's independence.
Neither a humongous nor small population is desirable. A large population makes people lethargic and cohesion becomes difficult in the absence of a tyrant ala Stalin or Mao.
While a small population which can be quite resilient due to its heightened sense of vulnerability cant withstand a constant barrage ala Germany in WWII. The best situation is some moderation.
250-300 million is plenty of people. I don't mean to sound Darwinian but vast majority of Indians are simply dead weight.
Sagar: Jambudweep or Bharatavarsha or India is a very sacred
concept. Our sacred books are very clear on the fact that India is one unit and
that only those who are born in this land can attain Moksha. Besides, ancient
Brahmin teachers had been constantly exhorting their Kshatriya disciples to
unify the whole India and become its Chakravarti. India for centuries had been
crying to be unified. Any idea that India is only an arrangement for self
defence is not true in light of ancient Indian thought. Unification of India by
a Kshatriya Chakravatin is a dream that was held throughout history.
YSV: Bharatavarsha is a sacred concept but is not a political concept. In fact our very shastras undermine the type of a state that would create a strong central authority. The reason we have so much diversity in India as opposed to say China is because the victor would not impose his customs and culture on the defeated as it was considered adharma. The Chinese simply wiped out the non Han minorities either physically or culturally whenever they got the chance.
It the ambitious wannabe chakravartins that yearned for a political Bharatavarsha not the other way round. Ask yourself, why we can count chakravartins on one hand through Indian history and two of them are foreigners such as Akbar and Queen Victoria who probably enjoyed more success in a centralized administration rule than Ashoka,Shalivahana or Samudragupta.
Oddly these days the surname Chakravarthy/Chakraborthy is associated with Brahmins only whether from Bengal ,AP or TN. Anyone know why?
Sagar:If India had remained united, areas like Afghanistan and
Pakistan and Bangladesh would not have become Islamic today.
YSV: Negative. There are a variety of reasons why these regions fell to Islam. Afghanistan even though ruled by Hindu Shahis were more of a Central Asian mindset in that if a ruler was defeated by someone of another religion, then it was considered prudent to follow that religion. This was true even after Russia broke Muslim power in Central Asia, many Muslims took up Russian names and became Orthodox. During Soviet times they became athiest. Post Soviet during Iranian and Arab political and cultural ascedancy they returned to Islam.
Pakistan was a decentralized nomadic state for whom the nomadic Arabs and Turks were a close fit.
Bangladesh was sparsely populated when Muslims took over and weren't really even Muslim until the British basically declared them so and they discovered they had more power being Muslim than Hindu.
Sagar: Unpleasant fact about Europe that not many would like to hear is that it is nothing but a network of vassal states dependent on USA for protection. As for conscription and repeal of Arms Act – yes they are needed very much. In fact, I would suggest that children – male and female – be trained in war from kindergarten onwards. Considering the number of enemies India has, we should be teaching kids throwing grenades rather than cricket balls.
YSV: Agreed on all points.
YSV:It is another matter Dharmic culture is eroding faster due to modernity and its inability to adapt its socio political structure than due to Delhi Sultanate, Mughals, Bahmanis or the British.--------------
Sagar: Do not worry. It will survive. It had encountered plenty of disasters and will outlive present crisis as well – because of 2 reasons. One, Dharmam represents eternal truth which will win sooner or later. Two, at least some people care for it and does whatever they can to preserve and promote Dharma.
YSV: I have worked quite a few jobs in various fields uncluding a multinational private security company you may have heard of in the years during the Iraq war years. The ones where I was most successful was where I didnt have a "chalta hai" attitude but was a worry wart. Indeed I consider my salary as compensation for worrying and thinking of what can go wrong. So I dont feel too complacent about the future. Sumerian civilization is probably older than ours and it has disappeared and Im sure they believed they had access to the universal truth. Well I believe Shiva is eternal but if he was not worshipped properly ala Tantra/Agama shastras then dark ages will befall humanity.
The threat of modernity with its attendant vices is more sinister and insidious than any thing that preceeded it and Im no Ted Kaczynski. I love technology and all the conveniences and quality of life it provides us. But there this aspect that has to be neutralized.
"I agree with you here. I personally dont put that much stock in meat eating . But we are talking past each other because we view this issue differently. Vegetarianism as we know it today is an imposition by the non martial people ruling us and we are supposed to imbibe their placid, non confrontational baniya culture" --- Do you think rainfall and climate had to do something with the imposition ?
ReplyDeleteBelow: India average rainfall map
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-97ad39f3282b10f1efe7554511f6db77.webp
Below: Water needed to produce 1 kg of food.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1dc1fe94401026b13b1f044e47b0f6b8.webp
Kerala(or the whole western ghats) and North-eastern region receive very high amount of rainfall,so it makes sense that they have wide cosumption of red meat as they can afford it. I am not sure if that's the case with the rest of india(bangalore already is in a water crisis as is rest of india.).Millets/wheat didn't require that much water,hence their prevalence in the western region.
good debate i agree with both sagar and ysv u can pick certain good points on both sides idea of hindutava is a britsh era ideology but its irrelevant in modern India. had this fanaticism existed during mughal era we would not have had Islamic invasion , also this religious fanaticism was reason for spread of islam in many parts of the world ,i disagree with ysv he states vegan lifestyle sort of made hindus into submissive race , u have to go to time where only Brahmans caste followed this lifestyle, not kshtriyas, merchant class or shudra class so anicent
ReplyDeletehindu kings were non vegetarians and their diet made no diffence in preventing any
invasion from outside.today its trend to follow vegetarian lifestyle . since class
system in India no longer exists even certain Brahman caste have taken into eating beef
if u had to follow the right wing hindutava then it means u need to alienate and deport Muslim population which is next largest after hindus then miority like xitians jains , Parsis etc this is not practical in any given point of time second scenario is convert existing Muslim or other minorty back to hindusim this is also not practical since we have splinter group within hindus who will not agree to it , aslo forceful conversion will give rise to communal riots across India which result into civil war scale battles btw two grups .
Deletehinduvadis next biggest challenge is regionalism , some states are more fanatical abt linguistic Cultural identity than others , todays
Deletescenario this ideology will remain pipeline dream of many of the right wing group like rss whose puopse is to create communal tension to milk the votes for bjp they have not done anything for Hindu cause. even to this day they are providing haj subsidy to Muslim as part of milking minority votes
Muslims still enjoy minority quota even thugh they have sizeable population
after Hindus, no other country in world has treated their minority
population better like India .
finally i would say its too late for todays society as damage has already been done by previous invasions. least Hinduvadis if they care about hindus they shuld ban conversion strict rule should enforced Evangelical
Deletemovements in rural India , stop the minority quota for other religion
bring the uniform law for all the Indians
hey chatbot I agree with u many points non veg was def not a factor when it comes to Hindu passiveness during Mughal or British rule ,it was the mentality that made the colonisation possible your also right ,many Hindu royals were non veg yet it made no difference during battles with Mughals and British ,I blame lot of cultural superstation that existed during that time for the downfall of hindus in general.
Deletehey ysv jam , anu others did u checkout latest antics of captain he is now flexing muscles in the video . he claims to have lifted 15kg dumbbelss LOL.....
DeleteI do agree with what capt wishes to convey here :) Workouts become important as we move into sixties and beyond.With proper exercise and workouts,a person can prolong active life well into 90s even.Its far better than to lie down in bed with osteoporosis,arthritis or such things.recently i read a medical article where a research shows that iron workouts tend to keep old people free of the degenerative diseases of musculo-skeletal system.However what capt is saying about the use of dumbbell and heavy weights is not the healthiest thing to follow.the body remains more healthy if we stick to a routine of bodyweight exercises,squats,pushups,bridges,and freehands without weight.workout with 15 kg dumbbell seems to give a sense of confidence but beyond that,it doesnt build all round functional strength and internal health like bodyweight exercises do.Its better to squat ,pushup or pull up a 100 times than to have a dumbbell curl 20-30 times.And instead of using 15 kg dumbbell for a few curls,its better to use dumbbells of of smaller weight for higher reps.I use 10 pound dumbbells ,but with high repetitions,like maybe 100 for each type of movement.Its pretty effective that way.the amount of time muscles spend under tension is more important than just the increment of load for a shorter time.
DeleteAnd one more thing,basic pranayam and breathing exercises help a lot in reducing ageing.Infact the use of weight training to gain strength is pretty much a modern gym culture.The ancient wrestling champions like Farmer Burns,Karl Gotch,or the indic kushti wrestlers used even breathing exercises to strengthen themselves.strength and virility comes from proper forms of movement and breathing,not just weightlifting.
Youre right. Most of the gym rats are quite useless in doing real work like farming, climbing trees , lifting heavy objects not conveniently shaped like dumb bells and so on. The best way to become stronger is by real life application. To this end yes indian pushups(dand) and squats uthak baithak are more effective than gym.
DeleteIt is amazing that a country like India with such a rich tradition of physical culture and exertion so much so that it is part of religion has such poor physical specimens. Much of this is due to the bad habits of the last 150 years or so due to a carb and sugar rich deity and sedentary lifestyle
Higher reps and lower weights are good for endurance and toning and defining muscle but not good for strength.
I say for the Olympics, why are we sending middle class spoiled kids who struggle for their athleticism. Why not send some toddy tappers and Kambala(southern Kanara buffalo racing) champions, or ricksaw pullers in Calcutta.
We are looking in the wrong places for our athletes.
ysv jam i agree with ur observation, put have u seen the video of captain
Deleteposted in his blog inspite of him boasting to b a "Hercules" , his arm
muscles are not tight its sagging he looks comparatively weak . look
at sly Stallone he is older than BUDDAO CAPT but his muscles are tight.
@YSV
Delete"Most of the gym rats are quite useless in doing real work like farming, climbing trees , lifting heavy objects not conveniently shaped like dumb bells and so on. The best way to become stronger is by real life application" ---- exactly.I was amazed to find that I could easily grapple with one of my gym going friends in college.He was lifting weights like crazy,and I did nothing but a few Hindu pushups at that time(at present I have included some more exercises like the wrestlers bridge or squat,and some other forms of pushups also). Now when i reflect back,I realise that what this friend of mine was lacking is known as functional or real-world strength in the domain of martial culture.Muscle hypertrophy doesnt sum up to equivalent amount of muscle strength,this is the first reality check gym rats need to ingrain in their mind.If the target is to build huge muscles,then definitely u should head for the gym ,because hypertrophy like Arnold or Stallone wont be achieved with bodyweight alone.However that doesnt mean Arnold or stallone would be the fittest kid of the block :) the source to raw functional strength lies elsewhere.In indic kushti culture,it is said that strength comes from the spine and legs largely(hence the use of high rep Hindu Pushups&Hindu Squats),not from any other muscle.This thing was recently corroborated by a group of bioresearchers in King's college of UK http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3311222/How-squats-lunges-walking-mind-young-Strong-legs-help-brain-resist-effects-ageing.html
However the most neglected exercise in my opinion is the wrestlers bridge.I am yet to see a second exercise which touches all muscles of the body from head to toe in a single movement :) Hindu pushups do come a close second as a "single movement full body workout" but nowhere near this wrestler's bridge (or the modified Chakrasana of Yogic terminology).Yet this exercise is the most neglected,sometimes out of fear and mostly out of ignorance.I have seen people brag that they can lift a 100 kg in benchpressing,however they wont be able to do a 100 pushups or just 2 minutes of bridging .
Delete@YSV
"I say for the Olympics, why are we sending middle class spoiled kids who struggle for their athleticism. Why not send some toddy tappers and Kambala(southern Kanara buffalo racing) champions, or ricksaw pullers in Calcutta. " ----
the legendary Kikkar Singh of Indian kushti had uprooted a large tree with bare hands and no other support.Similarly Ghulam Muhammad(more popular as the Great Gama to the world,and was reportedly admired by even Bruce Lee) had not lost a single wrestling match across the world.Not one european,russian,american or Japanese champ could defeat him in pro wrestling.Some of them were humiliated badly ,as they looked like amateurs infront of his physical strength.Among these wrestlers were Stanislaus Zbyszko.Yet Stanislaus was lifting hundreds of pounds at his prime,while Gama largely relied on high rep bodyweight training.
Hence u are damn right here also :) We are looking at the wrong places for talent in olympics or athletics.I would any day bet that the Kambala players,given proper training,will floor down champ wrestlers from around the world.Same goes for indic kushti.Infact Ghulam Muhammad(Gama) remains a testimony to the wisdom of Kushti training procedures,since in his whole life he remained unbeaten.the problem with indic kushti is that firstly this martial art is not being sponsored anymore .In the past the kings,zamindars and rich class used to sponsor kushti akhadas.that culture is now lost.Hence most of the present gen kushti trainers are part time wrestlers,they cant give 24 hours to the art,hence we are not seeing a second Dara Singh or Ghulam Muhammad anymore.I dont know for gods sake what the sports ministry of union cabinet does! They are allowing a superb art and sport culture to die away.A second problem with indic kushti in the world arena of olympics is that indian wrestlers train themselves in mud and clay rings,while olympic wrestling and international competitions are fought on specially prepared carpets.And a second factor is the tailoring of international pro-wrestling to the rules and ways of greco-roman &american culture of wrestling.Kushti practitioners dont need extra strength training,they need some good orientation training,without sacrificing the good points of their indic training process.And we shall again see a whole lot of world champs in wrestling from india.And if the first factor of sponsorship to kushti akhadas is sorted out,the subsequent parts will also get solved automatically.For now,its the sponsorship that matters,be it Kambala players or the Rickshaw pullers .
"Higher reps and lower weights are good for endurance and toning and defining muscle but not good for strength." - I differ with only this point of urs.I am saying this from my own experience,and atleast in my case,I have seen that strength and endurance are intricately related,u cant separate them.For example,if u use a 10 kg dumbbell with 60-70 reps for a few days.U will find that the progression to 15 or 20 kg would automatically become easier.As i said in my first comment ,strength comes from the time for which ur muscle fibres are under tension,and not just from the raw weight.However,if u are seeking hypertrophy,then u will have to look to benching or deadlifts :)
@Sonam
"is arm
muscles are not tight its sagging he looks comparatively weak . look
at sly Stallone he is older than BUDDAO CAPT but his muscles are tight." -Well to be honest,slagging of arm muscles is not what I would check in capt,however given the fact that he brags about his 15 kg dumbbell,it is a point to not :D However,in a broader sense,I would judge a person by the amount of functional strength he/she possesses,not by the weight of the dumbbell he is lifting.And functional strength does not come from weights,I can attest to that,since I have trained in both ways,and now settled largely for bodyweight exercises with my 10 pound dumbbells being like the cherry on the cake :)
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Deletejam i have never heard of names like Kikkar Singh Ghulam Muhammad
Deletethx for bringing info about these forgotten heroes
Jam captain is gym rat not a resistance trainer, earlier he had bragged about lifting 25kg can u believe it LOL.. i talked about sagging arms
cuz if he was a regular gym goer he would been much better shape
than having a man boobs and even jawline in his face is not strong
his face looks like sagging bulldog ,how can u forget about his alcoholic
issues, EVERY EVENING HIS WIFE MUST BOTTLE-FEED ALCOHOL OTHERWISE OLD MAN
WILL THROW TANTRUMS IN HIS HOUSE :)
i also i agree that bench pressing Hindu pushups etc are good long turn
Deletebut they don't add visible effect to body sculpting like having well shaped body like ab packs etc , it all depends peoples long term goal , some people go for fitness , some want to have model like body sculpting , some people want to become wrestlers etc
"look at sly Stallone he is older than BUDDAO CAPT but his muscles are tight."- sonam, sylvester stallone takes/took steroids. He was caught with growth hormone injections at an airport. He has also gone for surgical procedures of his face so, it won't make sense to compare him with captain.
DeleteBy the checkout the top answer by kapil in the following link,never knew ASI had so many untranslated documents at their helm lol
https://www.quora.com/Does-India-lack-a-tradition-of-recording-history?share=1
tim i am aware of Stallone talking steroids i was using him as an example
Deletethe point here is captain looks out of shape in spite of going into gym lifting 15kg or 25kg which he claims in his blog ,his arm muscles are not tight but at-least for his age and motivation that he has i respect him for that.many cases when person reaches this age grup many suffer frm diabets , arthritis kidney issues , heart issues etc, capt seems to b healthy physically which is good assets to have , which i hope we shuld all aspire to have when we grow old.
tim i agree with some answers given , ancient India Vedas , purnas etc were passed thrugh oral tradition hence much of it got lost since pre mughal era ,to British era , many written manuscripts available today are either incomplete , destroyed , many remains to b translated since modern Sanskrit differs from ancient Sanskrit,
Deletethis is also cause of concern today since there is huge gap left in Indian history , that many fake indologist , academics exploit this weakness by pushing their own agenda it could left wing or right wing ,if i have give left wing example i would say Sheldon pollock , Wendy doinger romilla thapar dev dutt patnaik etc right wing example rajeev malhotra , captain blog , pn oak bal ganadhar tilak, Rss type academics etc
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Deletejam i have question why is there very less strong man culture in Bengal Himachal ,Gujarat J&K . you don't find many kabbadi players , wrestlers etc , from these regions
Delete@Sonam
DeleteI guess u mean the tradition of indic wrestling when u use the term strongman.Assuming that,on what basis have u separated these four states from the rest?I mean Kushti or indic wrestling is dying a slow death all across india,except UP maybe.Not only kushti,all the traditional indic martial arts are dying a slow death,like northern and southern kalari traditions,Gatka martial arts of Punjab area,THang Ta of Manipur ,Lathi Khela or stick arts of bengal&Bihar,every single indian martial art is losing steam.So I dont find any correlation between the states u mentioned and the loss of strongman culture.this dilution of indic fighting arts is largely due to the nehruvian bent in education with a knack for copying the british system.and bengali society was not so unphysical a few decades back,every village had an akhada or gym of its own(the traditional gyms of the old era,not the modern gyms).Most of these have closed down due to the nonparticipation by people ,coupled with zero support from the govt.At one point of time,from 1950s to late 90s,the govt of india could see only one sport with their eyes,and that is cricket :) Hence even the strong soccer culture and base of india perished.back in 1940s,our indian soccer team was respectfully competing with the european teams of that time.Now we have come to a point where even newcomers from asia like Japan or South Korea have gone ahead of us in soccer,though they didnt have so vibrant a soccer base in their nations like we in india had,atleast in some states.However a silver lining is that in the recent U17 world cup soccer,India did manage to put up a decent show,though they lost all the three matches,but that was in a respectable manner.Even the area where india dominated back in 50s ,ie,hockey,is lagging now.Whatever happened to soccer and hockey is happening to kushti also.Sometimes i feel india could very well do the same without a sports ministry at all :) the current ministry is more or less nonfunctional.However one good decision the modi govt did take was to put a real sportsperson Rajyavardhan Rathore as the union sports minister,for the first time in indian history post 47.Can u believe,this is the first time a sports personality is heading the ministry :)
jam iam not talking abt martial arts i was referring to phelwani akhada typ e also the Olympic representation frm these states i don't find many athletes representing India. in context to Bengal my observation is many athletes from ur state looks like north easterners than native bangali ,but athletes frn ur state r ahead in football than any other sport. who can forget ganguly one and only exception who represented indian cricket at the highest level.
DeleteThere has been a lot of initiative and encouragement on part of the local governments in Haryana and Delhi with Olympics specifically in mind.
DeleteBengalis like those from TN and Kerala were well represented in track and field events. I think there were Bengali boxers also won some Asian game medals in the 1990s.
Not to mention Leander Paes in tennis.
As JAM noted cricket sucks all the oxygen out of the room. If it were upto me, I would simply ban this stupid game.
@JAM
DeleteDunno about the others martial arts you mentioned but Kalari in Kerala is going strong, to a lesser level in TN and southern Kanara.
Now it is not as potent neither is the training as brutal as it once was , but keep in mind it has disappeared or went underground for 100 years or so(using Puranic imagery we may say Goddess Bhagvati was banished to Patala loka by British Asuras).
I would say popular entertainment and new media have revived these arts.The movies Indian and Varghese Chekavar has repopularized Kalari and Varma Kalai. I saw a youtube video where a Sikh was trying to revive Gatka with from bits and pieces of info he gathered and it became a rather popular video.
If such individuals would set up a Go fund me site to support their aims, that would solve the funding and training issue.
If you examine Stallone's physique, his natural muscularity was in the First and Second Rocky and Rambo but from part 3 of each of these franchises he got increasingly bulked and ripped which seemed obviously juicing.
DeleteCaptain's physique is nothing to write home about. The photos of his youth show a lanky individual. He seems he got into weight lifting later in life perhaps in order to offset his (limited) appeal due to aging and was under the mistaken notion that bulking up would make the target of lust for college age women. I wouldnt be surprised if much of his hatred and insanity stems from the frustration that this didnt occcur. Why blame himself when he can blame the Jews with their GMO foods which led to his stunted height and their wicked marketing skills which brainwash women into convincing them into being attracted to men who look nothing like him.
DeleteWhat about Arnold Schwarzenegger? Does he have an ideal body for all of us to follow and build? Is it even possible for everybody?
DeleteGym rats? Why rats? I've been a "gym rat" myself for the past one month. I did reduce my rice (idli, dosa, rice, etc.) intake and largely replaced them with oats, vegetables, chapathi, ragi porridge, Protinex, etc. I'm far from my destination (i.e, like Arnold Schwarzenegger), but I'm sure I can get there in a decade or so. I'm still undecided over supplements like whey protein, creatine, beta alanine, etc. Mom doesn't want me to take them at all.
Sylvester Stallone still looks awesome compared to younger stars, if you ask me.
Forget GMO foods, in a few years, we'll have GM humans, rather GE humans! Oh wait, we already do! I mean, see 1 and 2. And this audio!
I don't think it is because of jealousy due to his physique, but more like captain doesn't want us to enjoy anything he did.
peace sells i agree with u on last part:) as soon as we started discussing abt his physique he penned a new post on same topic ,he seems to take words
Deletejam and ysv very seriously
Delete@YSV
Actually the saggy muscles that Sonam noted on capt's physique,might have something to do with the fact that capt has started weight training in the wrong time and continuing it in wrong proportion/balance. And as u said,jews had planned sitting inside their den,that they needed to screw capt up a bit,hence they sent all those GM foods to him,infact they marketed it to him is such a way that he was enticed into buying the same :D
@Peace Sells
See bro gymming is better than doing nothing at all.but gymming is not the best workout for ur health and fitness.GYm will only help if u wish to become an Arnold schwarzenegger(But even there MMA champion Hershel walker has shown alternate way.Hershel's training schedule consists of 1000-2000 bodyweight pushups of different kinds,and with that type of training alone,he has built up a well sculpted body).Otherwise gym workouts dont help u much.However u can still extract a good amount of healthy exercise from the gym equipments,like for example,u can do the alternate toe touch with weights in the gym(most gyms have that pulling type machine with adjustable weights for practising toe touches,i cant recall the name of this equipment).Alternate toe touch exercise helps strengthen the spine as well as the internal organs of the body,like colon,intestine or kidney.And then u can do a number situps and pullups also in the gym(though situps can be done at home equally). these are healthy exercises to do.But dont run after those useless dumbbell curls or bench presses,they do little to improve ur health,though they give bulging muscles no doubt.
YSV's usage of the term gym rats is pretty much on the spot,because I have seen my friends go into the gym even in late nights,sometimes after midnight :D So such type of gymmers can surely be called rats :) and after their gymming they come back munching a pack of potato chips or choco biscuits(gymming+processed fast food is the ideal combo to disaster in midlife).Just with a number of pushups ,some amount of squats,a few situps,and maybe some spotjogging for warmup,u can keep urself both healthy and strong .when u are getting into regular exercising,go for health and not for muscle definitions.Remember my advice,this will help u all through ur life :) And if u are willing to invest time and energy ino high rep pushups or bodyweight conditioning,u will get muscle cuts equally,like Hershel walker.
"peace sells i agree with u on last part:) as soon as we started discussing abt his physique he penned a new post on same topic ,he seems to take words" ----------- YSV its about time that u unleash another barrage of blogposts on the capt :D by now its pretty clear that capt is a regular reader of ur blog.Infact I may well praise my own prophetic vision now,when I had claimed 2 years back that some day in future capt himself ,along with his followers,would start reading ur blog,for the sheer quality and finesse of content u have put up :)
Delete@Sonam
Delete"jam iam not talking abt martial arts i was referring to phelwani akhada typ e also the Olympic representation frm these states i don't find many athletes representing India. in context to Bengal my observation is many athletes from ur state looks like north easterners than native bangali ,but athletes frn ur state r ahead in football than any other sport. who can forget ganguly one and only exception who represented indian cricket at the highest level. " ------ Sonam I forgot to reply to this .indian cricket was never a standard of high athletic performance or a measure of skills.thats because u need to have lobby support behind u to get a ticket into the national or even state level cricket teams.Sourav Ganguly comes from an affluent family of Kolkata,with good business links,hence he could crack a spot into the national team.Otherwise,if the same ganguly hailed from middle class background,chances are that we would never have heard the name of ganguly.interestingly when Ganguly himself was the capt of the team,he made it a point not to allow lobbying atleast in the top level,and he started giving chances to players from hitherto neglected states,like Yuvraj Singh,Harbhajan,ShibSundar Das of Odisha or a few bowlers from the south as well.that was the only time in indian cricket probably,when selections to top 16 of national cricket team were done fairly,by John Wright and Ganguly.However the levels below the national team,like ranji trophy or district level selections still had ample amount of corruption,Ganguly only ensured that the first line up of national team had some fairness.Ganguly actually inherited a corrupt and morally bankrupt national team from azharuddin,and he cleaned it up,put it to winning streak.The pinnacle of that was the 1-1 draw India kept in 2002 in the 4 match test series,against australia on australian soil.Otherwise in that era,it was impossible to beat or even keep a draw against aus or South African team in their own backyards. BCCI was searching for the flimsiest of options to remove Ganguly,after John Wright left the charge of coaching.With Greg Chappell's recommendations ,they got that breakthrough.On this point,one more thing interests me,that is the general tendency of indians to choose and worship the absolute wrong heroes :) this goes all the way from tipu sultan,gandhi to dhoni and kohli . Today Dhoni is worshipped like a god by the youth of india.This same DHoni halted progressive careers of a few superbly talented players like Gambhir,Manoj Tiwari and some others as well,just to see that his own lobby remains strong.BCCI is actually a colonial legacy still running and a shame for me atleast.And i agree with YSV,cricket should be banned,not because it is the worst of sports I have seen(infact I believe cricket is a pretty scientific and balanced strategic game,like chess),but because of all the dirty politics and subsequent halt to careers of many promising cricketers .In contrast,the football scenario in india is a bit better,in the sense that talented footballers still come from weak backgrounds ,but not by much though.
jam u right cricket shuld b banned , i lost interest in game when allegation of match fixing emerged in both international and Ipl matches, unfortunately it has now grown in to a religion ,cricket as it is today was built due kapil dev, sunil gavaskar , tendulkar dravid ganguly dhoni of course today virat kholi etc . if India had not won that 1983 world cup against west indies cricket would have been a smaller sport compare to hockey that game changed everything.
Deletejam ur firs comment,"jews had planned sitting inside their den,that they needed to screw capt up a bit,hence they sent all those GM foods to him,infact they marketed it to him is such a way that he was enticed into buying the same :D"
DeleteLOL.... JAM u have to mention imaginary frnd R who has been big influence on captains personality who inspired to captain to save Bharatmata or was this backswing by Rothschild all along :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBtw folks,do any one of you here understand Sanskrit (in devnagri script) here?
ReplyDeleteWhat a question. I can read Devanagari as I am sure JAM can. But my understanding of Sanskrit is rusty
Delete@YSV
DeleteYeah I can read devnagari well,and I guess most indians can.But i cant follow sanskrit whereever its gets different from the traditional bengali words.And i can follow it where it sounds similar to the bengali.overall i am poor in sanskrit,to say the least :) but i can read sanskrit,even though i may not understand what i am reading.
@YSV
DeleteI thought i had put up a comment today on this thread,maybe i am making a mistake or it might have got spammed.Anyway ,i can read and understand devanagari completely,but am very poor in sanskrit(my sole strength in sanskrit comes from the fact that some of the words in my mother tongue are similar to sanskrit,thats it ) .I am yet to take formal training in sanskrit.
Nice to know. The reason i asked this was that i was through an old post of ysv and found milin's comments where (at least according to my noobish sanskrit knowledge) he translated a few words out of context (or even wrong) but i saw no one trying to attempt a correct translation.
Delete@JAM , a lot of schools (atleast CBSE) have the option of taking an extra language in the form of sanskrit. I took it in school but it was quite rudimentary.
@Tim
DeleteYSV knows and understands sanskrit to a good extent,he probably didnt pay attention to the rubbish Milin was dishing.But anyway u can write whatever u think on Milin's translation.
hey ysv welcome back after long time i thought u will reply next year:) anyways
ReplyDeleteits been many years since u have updated topic ajit vadakayil who is he and deranged lunatic u already have plenty of material to add to the topic and its also end of 2017 so people need some change in reference to the topic:)
hey ysv jam and others what is ur opinion in Bitcoins or any other crypto currency do u think i should be legalized in India
DeleteWoah girl aren't you too obsessed with VADAKAYIL? I lurk on this blog site and 90% of your comments are about VADAKAYIL. Are you secretly in love with him or something? This obsession is not normal maybe you're simply too much triggered by him. Keep it chill k?
Deletehey star thanks noticing my love to vadakayil:) wats not like abt this muscular alpha male with 12 stranded DNA :) the chocolate boy the heartbreak kid ,the oldman who still thinks he can make chutney Marys to have camel toe :)whats not like abt him :)
DeleteStar Platinum is not Milin Patel. He is Iniyavel/Mars/Ice ...forgot his other avatar names. He has been posting here since 2015, if you include when he was a Vadakayil fan-2014.
DeleteI'm not one of those guys believe me lol. About VADAKAYIL, he's blog is 40% mind boggling info and 60% conspiracy and ranting very similar to various conspiracy sites and imageboards like chans and stuff. You can learn so much from his blogs if you can successfully filter out disinfo like DA JOOS and ancient vimana. So i have some respect for him.
Deleteok Apologies to you and Iniyavel. I was not accusing Iniyavel of any underhanded methods but simply that he tends to have such handles and hentai avatars.
Deleteysv i have suspicion that tim drake could be using alt id to pull prank on us:) or it could b as u pointed out iniyavel who is now denying that he is mr star :) both iniyael and tim drake have Tamil connection so dudes might know each other . its all good as long u don't harm anyone
DeleteI dont think Star Platinum is Iniyavel.
Deletesonam ji ,na main star hun na hi mera koi tamil connection hai . Don't know how you arrived at my non-existent tamil connection lol.
Deletetim drakeji plz dont get offended i was random guessing since very few names are regular visitors like ysv jam anu premchand sagar chatbot u and me . then there were milin patel , iniyavel etc if he was not among these names then it must b new follower ,
Deletehow i deduced ur tamil connection i remembered u commented on dark skinned tamilian topic in previous section also iniyael is Tamil name so i assumed u both are same person , like i said its random guess -:)
Star Platinum
DeleteU do share one of the distinct features of Iniyavel,his love for Japanese animes :) I myself am a fan of jap animes,but nowadays I dont get the time to go through the new series that are coming out.
JAM
DeleteYes i love anime and i think everyone should watch Japanese anime instead of propoganda bollywood and hollywood shit that we see nowadays.
@Star Platinum
DeleteI am still finding it hard to believe that u are not Iniyavel :)
Star Platinum's The world:
DeleteBuddy, let me tell you something. I know this is two months late, but let me say this out.
"Anime" lowers your IQ and damages your brain and cognitive abilities. I used to see it in 2015, but I abandoned it the same year itself because of this.
And what propaganda exists in Bollywood or American/British movies? Although I'm disappointed with Bollywood and Tamil cinema because they don't deliver new good content worth watching, I love American/British movies.
But then Tamil film Tik Tik Tik seems interesting: It's about NASA recruiting a team of deep core drillers to save the Earth from an asteroid that will hit her in one month. It released on February 16, I'll be seeing it this week. It stars Jayam Ravi. Although Behindwoods has given a rating of 3/5 stars, the story-line and the concept are enough for me to see it.
I love Australian rock (AC/DC and Wolfmother). I love British heavy metal (NWOBHM bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, etc.). I love American thrash metal (Megadeth, Anthrax, Metallica and Slayer in that order). Even Canadian thrash metal band Voivod is great.
Anime is a strict no-no for me now.
are thirteen and star platinum the same person?
Deleteanyway on the point raised,anime lowers iq and damages brain as much as any other mode of entertainment,if taken to addictive levels.infact,there are movies which are far more of braindead than the jap animes filled with rich stories and complicated plots,that require u to think and contemplate.
to Thirteen
DeleteDude atleast cite sources for your absurd claims like anime affecting IQ. Sounds total rubbish to me because I've been anime fanatic since my preteen days and i am a very stable genius.
And japan falls in above 99 average IQ countries and they are the one mass producing and consuming anime and manga and hugetons of games so your claim makes 0 sense.
to JAM
only porn can affect your brain drastically. It's on par with cocaine's ability to damage your brain. Porn addicts are actual addicts with serious mental problems.
Don't Japanese folks have an average IQ much higher than 99? This is news to me.
DeleteWhatever be the case, Japan doesn't have high IQ because of anime and games but despite them. Au contraire, anime is hastening the decay and destruction of the Japanese society.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-childporn/japan-arrests-six-over-child-pornography-at-least-168-boys-abused-media-idUSKBN15P0UT?il=0
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/03/26/national/crime-legal/child-porn-cases-break-annual-record-as-police-get-hands-on-buyers-list/
What else do you expect when you see kids/teenagers being casually molested in plenty of anime? Grownups will start looking at kids as toys to fiddle with, and not as humans. Not surprisingly, the biggest demographics watching anime fall in the age groups of 18-24 and 25-30. A good number of them are also above 30.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523
If I said this even in the 1990s (when anime started to go in the wrong direction), you would've had a more solid footing. Post 2000s, it has become a source of self-destruction for most people across the planet.
You don't need to think too much, just tell me why there even exists a genre called "Harem anime", or why molestation/perversion is normalized in some anime shows like Bleach, Inuyasha, etc. That in itself lays the foundation for porn in the not-so-distant future for the individuals concerned.
Btw, check this out
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_South_Asia.
(Y-chromosome is what sons inherit from father)
Some of the sample size of the population is small,like < 50 so be careful before generalizing.
Some interesting haplogroups are R1a(also found in eastern europe ,this is what some academics associate with the last "aryan invasion/migration"), haplogroup J ( found in western asia/arabs and in india ,south india has a higher % than north india of this haplogroup),haplogroup R2.
Another interesting one is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20
If you see the map, this haplogroup has high concentration along western india and the indus valley/pamir region in pakistan. (kerala scores high in this haplogroup, may be this is Captain's haplogroup lol).
jam ysv and other ,captain in all these years never mention about aliens , men in black men ufo alien abduction, ghosts or Bigfoot , his focus is Jews and R ,he could gotten more followers if he expanded his base a little ,he would he been Indias own Alex Jones OR David Icke LOL..
ReplyDeleteysv jam others have u seen bitcoin hump to 17k dollars in exchange iam really interested in hearing pros and cons of bitcoins frm ysv and others .what impact it will have if its legalized India , i read somehwhere chandrababu naidu wanted to start bitcoin mining in andhra
ReplyDeleteHi YSV I'm not a regular visitor and i don't know if you take requests but please write a post on cow worship, beef eating , gaumurtra and all that stuff that we are seeing nowadays in mainstream politics. I agree when you said that it's very moronic of bjp but can you share insights on ancient culture and significance of cow because i guess cow is respected in every infic religion even the famous sikh king ranjit singh banned cow slaughter. What's the reason behind this respect? Is it just agricultural and economical? Also, what about drinking cow urine? Cap said that it's good but i want to hear it from you.
ReplyDelete"can you share insights on ancient culture and significance of cow because i guess cow is respected in every indic religion" --- Just wanted to add one more info.The cow reverance thing might go back to the old aryan tribes in iran . For example, quoting from https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-similarities-between-Iranian-and-Indian-mythologies/answer/Aashrai-Arun?share=1 ->
Delete"Gavevdad is like the Hindu Kamadhenu - a magical cow that comes to the aid of sages and kings alike, that the cow that can prophesise the future. When Shyamak - the son of Gayomart, dies in battle fighting the worshippers of devas, and when Gayomart himself dies, the Gavevdad gives him a vision saying - All is not lost. Zarathushtra will be born and will set all things right.
Additionally, in Zoroastrian scripture, Geush-urvan or cows’s soul, is a sacred element of nature which is said to be an embodiment of all souls"
Btw the above the quora answer was quite informative regarding indo-iranian similarities atleast for a noob like me.
The Vedic people were pastoralists and as such their livelihood depended on their cows. This is why killing cows is a taboo in Vedic culture. The Iranians switched from herding cows to herding goats, so they no longer had this taboo. This is why eating beef was quite common in pre-Islamic Iran.
DeleteBut wasn't the cow sacrificed during gomedha yagnya in the Vedic period?
Delete@Premchand
DeleteBoth Indo Iranian groups Aryas and Iranians were pastoralists originally. So were Semitic groups. All except Indo Aryans eat beef. So the argument that pastoralists tend to revere the cow does not hold.
Something else went on in India- I think it was the rise of Buddhism and Jainism and their emphasis on vegetarianism.
Also over time, a lot of tradition and insight into the scripture was lost . And people starting assuming the heavenly cow was the garden variety bovine creature and that we shouldnt hurt it. The heavenly cow can be a metaphor for Prithvi or had a tantric aspect.
For example
Sooyavasaad bhagavatee hi bhooyaa atho vayam bhagvantah syaama, Addhi trnamaghnye vishwadaaneem piba shuddhamudakamaacharantee - Rigveda 1.164.40
The Aghnya cows – which are not to be killed under any circumstances– may keep themselves healthy by use of pure water and green grass, so that we may be endowed with virtues, knowledge and wealth.
This has been mistranslated mostly in this manner- aghnya is something cannot be hurt. Now those cow worshippers prefer to interpret it as cows as aghnya which SHOULD NOT be hurt. As oppposed to cannot. Big difference between cannot and should not.The former suggests a supernatural or metaphorical aspect while the latter is a socio religious dictat.
@Premchand
DeleteIn India too ,most shepherds herd goats as they are easier to manage.
Perhaps another reason that there is a strict divide between pastoralists and settled agricultural people in the Middle East. Much of the Biblical stories revolve around this.
Interesting, all this proves that sacred cow is not just a hindu or vedic thing. I have seen ambedkarite buddhists claiming that ancient brahmins adopted this sacred cow element to look superior to ancient buddhist but it looks like cow reverence is common in Indo-Iranian worship especially Zoroastrianism which is a ripoff.
Delete@Ysv &others
Deletein coherence with YSV's opinion,I have seen a strange connection.Bengal and Kerala are the two places where nonveg was never a taboo,even puja rituals in these two states have nonveg offerings for deities.For example on the day of VijayaDashami,Durga in bengal is offered a full course of rice with fish and meat.And interestingly these are the two places where buddhism didnt clash with hinduism.rather buddhism assimilated and evolved into its tantric form,the vajrayana buddhism,which is now prevalent in sikkim area.so i guess some of the taboos of north indian hinduism might have something to do with the rise of buddhism and jainism,because clearly the two places where buddhism didnt become a threat,ie,kerala and bengal(there might be other parts of india as well ,i am not aware of) dont have problems with veg or nonveg .Also another aspect behind north indian vegan bigotry could have been the urge to establish relative superiority and purity vis-a-vis the other nonveg eating hindu groups.
Infact I believe that even the tradition of temple worship was an after effect of the buddhist wave in india.temples were not there either in the IVC or the vedic civilization,atleast no mention of any temple or excavation has been found till date.
Temple worship seems to be a post Gupta era development. It coincided with the rise of the bhakti traditions and yes were most likely imitations of Buddhist Sanghas. Many Buddhist and Jain temples were appropriated by Shaivas and Vaishnavas in the south after the former lost prestige, debates or even outright killed or expelled.
DeleteHOwever a temple wasnt simply a religious structure only but the entire town revolved around it. It also functioned a library, school, gymnasium, assembly and food bank or shelter for the needy.
hey star if ur not regular visitor then how did u notice my love to vadakyil as u told u read all my comments . let me Quote ur words " I lurk on this blog site and 90% of your comments are about VADAKAYIL."
ReplyDeleteonly shameless persons who trolls ysv blogs is Milin patel ,i know who ur MR star /milin patel u cannot getaway with ur lies and fake id
Hahaha i said I'm not a regular visitor but i can read ysv's post in one go and i have noticed that 90% of your comments are about VADAKAYIL and these comments show uncanny obsession with him and even ysv will agree with me. I am following this blogsite since 2015 when i first discovered vadakayil's blog and since then have been reading ysv's posts once in a month or two and i hardly comment here. I'm not that milind patel guy trust me.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletemr star who ever u are all i can say is don't hate capt personally as i have not met him most of my comments against is to expose false claims and inaccurate historical facts his regional chauvinism and misogyny against woman ,many of his current and ex followers are silent readers of ysv blogs even capt himself is biggest fan and silent reader of ysv , so dont fooled by his desh bhakt antics or his knowledge of "sanatana dharma" he is hardcore atheist commie and he is mallu first then indian. even ysv started this blog to xpose hypocrisy of vadakyil do u accuse ysv of being
Deletehater of capt ?
@sonam: So now the capt has started a YouTube channel and is uploading fitness training videos. LOL
DeleteBTW, I'm absolutely sure that star platinum person is not Iniyavel. Iniyavel's writing style is completely different from this star guy's.
@Anu
DeleteNow Im convinced capt reads this blog LOL. Over the past few weeks we have taken quite a few jibes at his physique.
Just for the record- I never doubted his ability to lift heavy dumb bells,but rather his over all fitness and his functional strength as Im sure he doesnt do yoga, kalari, Hindu pushups or all the other stuff he praises in lieu of "Western" gym training. And that loose shirt does not quite manage to hide his big belly.
You are right YSV. He never does yoga, hindu pshups, kalari etc. He's only interested in writing about those exercise/martial arts in his blog. He is only a gym rat, as you said.
DeleteBTW, I even doubt that he has ever gone on a pilgrimage to Sabarimala, though he keeps on extolling the spiritual benefits of a Sabarimala pilgrimage.
anu i have seen his you tube channel he started it many years ago i saw his son playing piano one time , LOL on the" BTW, I even doubt that he has ever --------- " part . don't be surprised if he post his Sabarimala photo nxt if ysv jam and others start discussing it :)
DeleteYeah true, nowadays he is creating posts based on what we all discuss on YSV's blog. He has become an ardent follower of YSV's blogs. LOL
Delete@YSV
DeleteI think my comment on this thread got spammed.Its pretty dull of google to boast about absolute dominance in search engine&analytics,when they have such a shitty spam filter :D
I saw your comment from my inbox. And it didn't even have links. Wonder why google blogger marked it as spam.
DeleteAnu can u give the link to Vadakayil;s youtube account?
DeleteI don't have the link to vadakayil's youtube acct. Since sonam mentioned that she saw vadakayil's dumbell video, I assumed that he had created a youtube channel to showcase his fitness. Perhaps sonam can point out to his youtube channel.
Deletejam and anu let me give u link https://www.youtube.com/user/ajitvadakayil/feed?disable_polymer=1
Deleteysv jam and other frm now on i will participate less in topics of indian history specifically pre independence and independence we have covered so much and we all have different angle we never reconciled jam favors right wing theory to indian history , ysv is in to mainstream history i like
Deletealternate history so we often ended in stalemate or heated debate sometimes
i also feel we need to explore many other topics like freemasonry , Gnostic traditions ,ufo and ancient alien theory ,history of America jfk assassinations Vietnam wars ,flat earth or hollow earth theory moon landings etc these things can b discussed in a rational manner
let me also add that capt has abused the term Rothschild to suit his argument hence lost his credibility .he should have done more research on the topic instead of copy pasting frm random blogs, claiming it as his own work .these topics demand real research many ufo researchers ,alternate historians etc have made an honest attempt to give a credible info ,its people like captain who have given bad name by giving their own spinoff. its like adding dirt to a candy and passing it off as tasty delicacy
Delete@Sonam
DeleteIt doesnt require right wing theory to see the simple fact that indian freedom struggle was by and large a Hindu struggle.And just to put things in order,I am no fan of indian right wing either,atleast what we call Sangh Parivar .Now they are even bringing to life the dead man called Sardar Patel,solely because he seemed to have done one or two things post independence that they think were good for Hindu culture :) I dont have a huge respect for Patel either.Indian right wing was always a messed up entity,and Savarkar's disengagement only made things worse for them.Sometimes I feel that the right wing has compromised more in terms of philosophy than the centre or centre-left did.I do acknowledge whatever good Sangh or the defacto indian RW base has done till date,but that is far from satisfactory.The problem with indian RW is that it cares too much for political clout,even if that comes with total sacrifice of ideology.However that still doesnt mean i would be going into centre-left anytime soon :) its just that we never had rational political leadership post independence,with some consistency.And whenever there had been a chance of getting a non-compromising leader ,like PV Narsimha Rao or Sanjay Gandhi,things didnt turn out perfect.Maybe that is the reason why Modi is walking on a path of balance and not bulldozing his way through the mess.but anyway coming back to the topic,I would suggest that instead of delving into all those alternate history realms,u better read some works from the Nationalist school of history,like those of RC Majumdar and Sitaram Goel.their works will give u superb insights into indian history,and far better than the perenially celebrated leftist historians :)
jam u know me right when i said right it doesn't mean u r a hindutatva extremist , all meant was u have affinity to certain heroes like savarkar , netaji etc it was not meant to an insult to anyone ,there is nothing wrong in defending heroes u admire. and for record the being sympathetic to certain ideology is nothing to ashamed of i myself like certain values of rss which can beneficial to Hindus. but today main goal of rss is to fight against minorities for the vote bank politics not for the Hindu cause
Delete@Sonam
DeleteLOL RSS is not even fighting against minorities.They are now bringing some "cultural Nationalism" concept,and for the record,they are no more a Hindu Nationalist outfit.Too much of politics corrupts and bankrupts any org.same with RSS.However their politics is not anti-minority at this point,they are a prominority group now,with iftar parties being thrown at the drop of a hat.at this rate,they will soon be a defacto congress or left-centre outfit.
My affinity for certain heroes comes from my extensive reading on them,and not from sources like Dominique Lapierre.
U are right ,being sympathetic to an ideology is nothing to be ashamed of,but at the same time the mind should not get biased so much that the harms of that ideology would not be visible to me.most of the leftists of india cant see the harm leftism has been doing to hindu cultural fabric of india.similarly most folks within RSS cant see the hypocrisy in RSS throwing iftar parties :) this is why savarkar and Sitaram Goel pitched for a rational Right wing,and current Sangh Parivar is far from what they dreamt of.
LOl jam even i was skeptical of udupi seer attending iftar party. when u have enemies within u dont need external forces to weaken Hindu cause , u also have Fadnavis Maharashtra cm who is trying to appease to minority u have Amruta Fadnavis his wife who got into a Twitter battle with right-wing columnist Shefali Vaidya after the latter taunted her for taking part in a Christmas-inspired charity event. then there is Goa cm parrikar who has not yet banned beef in goa, if these antics continues bjp will not win election in these states .
Deletethe latest embarrassment to bjp is 2g scam verdict
Delete2G scam: A man said seven years ago that a Rs 176,000 crore scandal has happened; another man started an agitation to explain it. The third woman and the fourth man were also associated with him. The fifth person has publicized the 2G scandal. To give a second movement, the sixth person took it to the Supreme Court!
The seventh person compiled the hard work of all these men and asked the people to vote against this scam.After 7 years, all the accused were acquitted; there was no scandal.
But the amazing thing is that the first man (Vinod Rai) has become the boss of BCCI after getting Padma Bhushan; Second man is Delhi's cm
The third woman (Kiran Bedi) is the deputy governor of the Chief Minister (Gen. VK Singh). The fifth person Ramdev became a successful businessman ; the sixth person (Subramaniam Swamy) became the MP; and the seventh person became the Prime Minister
link
https://youtu.be/Lb6aqoRmm7Q
"ysv is in to mainstream history i like
ReplyDeletealternate history so we often ended in stalemate or heated debate sometimes
i also feel we need to explore many other topics like freemasonry , Gnostic traditions ,ufo and ancient alien theory ,history of America jfk assassinations Vietnam wars ,flat earth or hollow earth theory moon landings etc these things can b discussed in a rational manner "
Deriding others as "mainstream" is a very cheap tactic of nitwits as its a shortcut for being considered subversively intellectual even as all these conspiracy theory topics you wish discuss are the realm of cranks and crackpots. Take these topics to Vadakayil blogs only please.
ysv like jam u have misinterpreted my stand when i said mainstream it doesn't mean to insult u personally , when i said to discuss the above topic it was meant to bring a change since most of the time we discuss only indian history not other topics ,our goal is to expand our knowledge , not be close minded . for the record i don't agree with captain + conspiracy theory= crackpots . that is a narrow minded insult to all the genuine researchers in that field. just because people like capt have given such a bad name that doesn't mean u can group all in the same bracket .
ReplyDeletePray tell what "Genuine research" are you looking at with regard to flat earth and hollow earth. These ideas are so incredibly nonsensical that the proponents dont realize that even the ancients never thought the earth was flat or hollow. The church for example never considered the earth to be flat , that was not their issue with Columbus's voyage. It was simply objected to sailing unchartered waters because they believed that was Gods will. Similar to how Indians in late medieval era came to believe in "kaala pani"
ReplyDeleteAll of those topics you have cited are beloved by conspiracy theorists and deranged cranks. If you wish to discuss those, be my guest,just not here. And dont expect me to take you seriously henceforth.
For the record I post considerably on things which are not Indian history and people like YOU bring it back to Indian freedom fighters , Congress etc. Physician heal thyself
I need you of all people to lecture me on expanding my mind and narrow mindedness. Hahaha what a joke.
Forgot to mention, you are barely interested in history at all , but nitpicking about current politics . You hijack and divert each every thread(even not dealing with Indian history or politics) for this pet agenda of yours.
Deleteysv u need to chill dude, you are taking this far too personal, its funny that u tend to attack people with ad hominem, which is characteristic u and capt seem share , i never excepted this behavior out of you .which is disappointing when i read ur comments . ysv its you who tend nitpick in btw the lines of comment u dont seem to understand the context of my comments.
Deleteflat earth and hollow earth are just example to the context of my comments ,u cherry picked to use it as an insult, abt not contributing to indian history topic, readers who will read this blog know tht me and jam have gone more than 300 comments on savarkar bose etc i have also answered some of the tim drake questions ,you on the other hand have always quoted Wikipedia like opinion to most of the topic in which we discussed you never
Deletehad anything new to add to the answers , about hijacking comment section
i was the one who always initiated the topic then jam and others joined and shared their opinion,
lastly ysv you tend stick only indian history topic because u want to hide ur own ignorance on many of the other topics which which may not be related conspiracy etc
Deleteyou can learn a lot from friend JAM Never Once he Insulted me for being contrary opinion to his own theory abt bose etc on the other hand he provided far more insight to learn ,you on other tend to attack people on very personal level and make them go to very low level . before you flip out more and attack me personally i shall leave this blog with my dignity
as i don't want to get into slug feast of words with you .
@Sonam
DeleteI wont wish to step into this argument between YSV&u,just one point to clarify-YSV's posts hold more insight than what i write in the comments section.So kindly do not compare me with him,he is far more well read than I am,and I routinely ask questions to him for clarification on diverse topics.As for the rest,thats for u&YSV to sort out,i cant chime in there.
jam you are being humble here i have read ur comments on topics like mediation etc u bring truly new perspective which i have read from other blogs . without you this blog will be like silent film . ysv knows your value hence he often compromises his stand
Delete@Sonam
Deletewithout me,YSV would still get a good many readers,Sagar&PremCHand being two of them with whom I have interacted extensively.So my presence or absence doesnt matter .Sooner or later YSV's blog would get popular enough,because of the sheer quality of his essays.whatever silence u have observed is only because YSV himself often fails to attend to his blog for days together.and in general for the type of essays or serious discussions YSV writes on,u will never get capt-like fanfollowing,because for that u will have to dish out conspiracy theories and crackpots to get more followers&sycophants :)
jam i have no doubt on ysv abilities or the quality that he has produced in his blog which is why i came to this blog at first place see here is the thing he lashes out at people for no reason often taking it to very personal insults i have not seen publish other topics than indian history , i have not seen him taking different approach to the historical facts other mainstream facts sort of like Wikipedia iam not saying he has to become another vadakyil but u can have rational approach to any subjects
Deleteand not have close minded approach to any knowledge
@@sonam gupta
DeleteOf all the examples you chose the ones rife with conspiracy theory and you say it was by chance you chose those to discuss. How stupid do you think people are.
As to my expertise, I dont pretend to be knowledgable about each and every thing under the sun .That would make me no different from the captain. I write about many other things, if you are unable to read and understand them then it is not my problem.
I am grateful JAM, Premchand and others for their contribution. Indeed the blog would be silent without them. But then there are the silent readers which I am also grateful.
I write to elaborate and articulate certain matters which I think others dont cover(atleast to my knowledge) and to get it out of my system so I can be relieved.(Insert sexual reference here)
For that reason even if I have no readers whatsoever I would write anyway. Readers and commenters are an added bonus whom I dont take for granted.
jam here is another diff btw u and ysv you have always engaged in civil manner when somebody disagrees with you ,ysv sort becomes vindictive to uses MAA BEHEN type cuss words ,he lacks the ability to win over his detractors i feel missed an opportunity when first wrote an article about captain. Had he engaged the capt followers in a civil manner at same time exposing captain in rational way he could had twice the followers today instead he matched same intensity of words as his detractors .this sort thing will make him unpopular in future .YSV AGAIN PLZ DONT READ IN BTW THE LINES UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGE IAM TRYING TO CONVEY anyways it sad that it came to this stage. Again goodbye JAM and others
DeleteI wonder how many followers HITLER would have accumulated if he had chosen to soften his speeches.
Delete@Himanshu
DeleteWell gandhi broke that stereotype .His soft stance,polite manners and Ahimsa still managed to give him a fanfollowing Hitler would be envious of :) Not that I support Gandhian ideology,just making this observation wrt relative popularities and deification.
Gandhi had support of britishers to propagate his ahimsa against british and subjugate revolutionaries otherwise they would have been swept long ago.
Deleteyeah agree with u .
Delete@himanshu are you using Hitler as allegory to point out the difference between captain and ysv rao ,
Deleteysv its sad that my friend left due to your ego laden insults.till yesterday she was making jokes about captain you joined chorus together as it provided you entertainment. when she wanted to discuss different topic you lashed out at her for no reason . you have used everyone for your own selfish purpose.
It is amazing that nor chatbot nor Sonam Gupta realize that they were often insulting me but in an under handed passive aggressive manner by insuniating that I am convential, mainstream which really a euphemism for dull, unimaginative and uninteresting in context. And when I retaliate( I am not really passive aggressive but aggressive aggressive) it seems "I have used people for their selfish purpose" hahahaha. I never put a gun to someone's head and forced them to comment here. Really chatbot has a few screws loose.
Deleteysv rao if want to show your machismo why don't you confront someone like captain who is a exactly like you . Instead of lashing out on poor girl Sonam like a Coward who never meant any harm you often misread her intentions. if you want showoff aggro nature and your foul mouthed vocabulary you got my attention buddy.
Deletechatbot thanx for your support i just want to clear that i never had any intention to insult ysv he misread my comments he reads in between the lines
Deletenever gets the context correct. anyways goodbye
@chatbot You seem to have been living in a cave..on Mars with your hands over your ears. I have been challenging the captain forever, I often trolled him on other sites where I chased him away. His posters often issue abuses and death threats over the years. I once posted on his blog that I would like to meet if he thought he could beat me up and I told him I would fly over to India to any place of his choice. He never published the comment.
DeleteAnyway all in all, you never disappoint when it comes to vapidity of your comments. At least you are consistent.
@sonam gupta
DeleteStop being a drama queen. If you are so agitated by such milquetoast comments where I and others are sympathetic to many of your views, you will be eaten alive on more hostile forums.
Get a thick skin and grow up.
ysu you are lucky that captain didn't agree to meet you he is batshit crazy guy . he also boasted in the blog that his giant son Aashiq who once beatup a bully in school, think about the outcome if he had agreed to ur conditions.
Deletekeep your advice to yourself its because of your thick skin you act like
retard and cyberbully .
chatbot please stop it i know you are upset at ysv for what happened
Deleteit all right we need to move on, i don't want to you get into war of words and engage with this person again.
@chatbot
DeleteI dont issue threats and take up challenges I am not able to back up. As for the captain being mad- hum bhi kisse kam nahin. Only a crazy guy will taunt another crazy guy haha. If he was batshit crazy, he wouldve responded to me accordingly regarding my invitation to meet up.
Heck never mind real life, online the reason you dont find the captain polluting timesofindia, Katju.Koenraad Elst or other blogs is that I started trolling and taunting until he couldnt take and fled. I have helped make the rest of the net a Vadakayil free zone. Atleast a crazy guy would persist and carry on regardless.
A crazy guy will keep making even worse allegations against Aamir Khan after he was locked for defamation. NO, the captain quietly deleted all the posts and even mentions of him being in jail.
The captain is actually quite rational when it comes to his self interest. Your lame attempt of mocking me via the captains so called insanity is another fail just like your other posts.
@sonam gupta
Delete"this person" . Keep it classy. Well off you go after I tolerated your numerous posts basically recycling captains ramblings and then taunting me for being close minded . Sonam Gupta bewafa is all I can say hahahaha
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deleteysv i didn't wish to engage with you again but since you took my name let me clarify i was a ex follower of this person hence i wanted many of the theories to be debunked ,so i discussed topic which this person had already published in his blogsite.
Delete"Sonam Gupta bewafa" nice attempt to be funny "mr Raody" who thinks he is good at Parody.
@YSV
Deleteyeah u are mighty successful at that :) Capt is nowhere seen nowadays either for trolling or even commenting,in the online places.
The worst thing about capt's followers is that they really believe writing a few blogs would save their nation and dharma :D Heck capt even claimed the internet itself was Kalki avatar or something like that,thereby justifying his blogging to come to the level of Dharma Yuddha like Kurukshetra :) if only things were that easy in real life.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNow I am convinced Sonam Gupta is a shameless liar and/or a brain dead conspiracy theorist.
DeleteSee how she shifted from wanting to "discuss" UFOs, flat earth theory to "I wanted them debunked".
Are you fucking serious , what debunking of flat earth theory do you need??!! I mean for god sake , pick up a 5th grade science textbook. If you are even incapable of that , god help you because I cant.
Either you are a conspiracy theorist or you yourself are too stupid to even attempt to debunk the silliest conspiracies that even a grade schooler can do. In the case you are the latter you are embarrassed to admit it and then in an underhanded passive aggressive manner abuse those who you perceive to be mocking you.
Either way- fuck off. I don't need to deal with such vermin
Every blog,books by upsc toppers and groups on facebook have different stories to narate
ReplyDelete@Unknown
DeleteIn case of upsc groups,what u call different stories is nothing but the leftist narrative .Broadly there are two prominent schools of thought in modern history writing,the leftist school and the nationalist school.UPSC is a left oriented exam,where u are forced to praise Gandhi,and put nehru into 7th heaven for their hyper achievement :) Hence u will find that upsc folks read Bipan Chandra,Romila Thapar and even Shashi Tharoor(Pax Indica),but not far more credible&authentic RC Majumdar(or heck even Sitaram Goel :) ) .Hence I never discuss history with upsc guys.they invariably end up dishing the leftist crap that they consume.
I find Romila Thapar's grasp of ancient Indian and early medieval history to sound. It is only with the Muslim era she twists herself into a pretzel in order to explain away Islamic atrocities.
DeleteShashi Tharoor spoke out eloquently against anti India bias in Western media even defending Hindus against calumny .For e.g his critique of Indiana Jones and Temple of Doom.
Koenraad Elst pointed out something interested sometime ago. It is these leftists such as Romila Thapar are dressed in traditionally in saree and binid and you see Hindutva intellectuals in Tshirt jeans or suits.
He reaches a happy conclusion that Indian culture permeates even leftists. But I take the opposite view as I am more pessimistic in this regard- I believe Indic culture is in a stranglehold of the LEft.
There are few more knowledgable people about Indian art, music, history than Girish Karnad and Kamalahassan. And we all know what their views. Same goes for Satyajit Ray.
The most talented writers(in regional languages). musicians, artists, singers, classical dancers even Kathakali and Yakshagana are firmly leftists. Heck I wouldnt be surprised many priests chanting shlokas are members of communist party especially in Kerala and Bengal. It is not enough that leftists have culture but they also have religion in their claws. The government filled with leftist beureucrats still controls the temples
Part of it is classist if not a lot of it- ironically socialism is increasingly the signal of an elitis either cultural or economic! And religion and nationalism based ideologies are down market fit only for the riff raff
@YSV
Deleteyeah u are right,actually in preislamic history,Romila Thapar or traditional leftists are ok.the problem,as u said,starts with islamic and the british era,where leftist scholars play a balancing role just to incorporate a more moderate image of the invaders.Thus Babur becomes an epitome of secularism in the ncert books,and Khilji becomes an able ruler,just next to Rama Himself :) And just like rivers meet into the ocean,so have all these divergent streams poured into a sea called Gandhi .That pretty much sums up a lot of leftist history telling.Overall I am pessimistic about them.
U have pointed out one interesting thing here,its a fact that leftists seem to have honoured the traditional culture .but that itself is deeply rooted in the philosophy of communism,which is a pro-mass ideology in nature.Hence it is quick at adapting to the people's demands and culture,and that is why temple priests of bengal and kerala dont mind identifying themselves with marxist communism.Here communism actually moulded itself to suit the promass agenda,not because it wants to improve the society or Hindu culture,but for the votebank and political clout.Of late I am seeing a strange bias in a section of right wing scholars,who have started claiming that cpm of bengal and kerala is actually more proHindu than the Sangh Parivar.This illusion of theirs stem from the fact that CPM cadres of bengal routinely engaged in all hindu pujas and cpi cadres of kerala sometimes clash with the islamist political groups of kerala.But what they fail to realise ,and what u have beautifully pointed out,is that COmmunism actually dilutes the native hindu culture,by mixing with it.One practical example will help me explain this better.A few decades back in bengal,we had kushti akhadas and traditional village gyms in most of the villages(I dont know whether u have seen this thing,but before the flashy western gymnasium,we had our own indic gyms,with ancient style iron weights and different such equipments.My college was in a rural area,and I have seen one such gym club of olden times).Infact a large number of such kushti akhadas were banned or strictly kept under supervision by the police in preindep era,or were outright banned,because they had become hubs of nationalists and freedom fighters,particularly in and around kolkata region.People would come to exercise in these akhadas and gyms,they would discuss on nationalism,revolution,freedom struggle,and from there some more freedom fighters would be born,since these were mostly youth who gathered in these akhadas.My grandfather himself was a freedom fighter,and he also got influenced from one akhada he used to visit in college life.So these akhadas and traditional gymnasiums were points of cultural betterment&exchange(only for Hindu community though).Now when the commies took over bengal,these akhada ,gym and traditional cultural points diluted away,not because CPM was forcefully stopping these,but for the fact that people started flocking in party meetings and similar political activities instead of attending these akhadas.Thus the culture died a subtle death,and now u will hardly find a traditional kushti akhada in bengal.I guess kerala might also have shared a similar pattern vis-a-vis communism.This is how the cultural aspects die away in a marxist system,because at the end of the day,as u said,they take both religion&culture in their claws,and over a span of time,u will find everything diluted by leftist thinking being injected slowly.
Hence when a certain group of modern rightwing scholars praise CPI of india for upholding hindu culture,I can sense their disconnect from the pulse of the society at large.
@Himanshu Pal
DeleteGandhi came about at the time when most revolutionaries were jailed or were dead. Indians were looking for a new direction and Gandhi arrived on the scene. It is hard to believe but most Indians would be shocked at Ahimsa being a political strategy in the early 1910's, it was considered thoroughly unnatural.
All said and done. I am glad some revolutionaries such as Lokmanya Tilak never had any influence. That guy was a destructive and regressive agenda for independent India. For eg he was against lowering of the age of marriage of girls to 12! That was too high for him!! I ask Hindutvadis who mock Mohd for marrying Ayesha at age 9, what is exactly is the difference between you and Mohd if you have no issue with Tilak?
@JAM
DeleteThat just depressing to hear. Great! Who needs physical activity and defense training when you can spend your time listening to 4 hour speeches about the class struggle. Though I would say this is a disease of Indians in general. They are long on talk and short on action since atleast the last 200 years.
Why look at the independence struggle consisting of Gandhi, Patel and Nehru , they basically attempted to talk the British out of India LOL-committees, commissions, studies, conferences etc. etc. The British were secretly snickering behind their backs all that time and who can blame them?
@JAM
Delete"its a fact that leftists seem to have honoured the traditional culture" -- i wanted to quote Rohit patnaik's answer from quora(the dude has been banned and that answer was removed ,so i am giving an other link). It seems that some people may not like the honor given by "leftists" including Ms Thapar to their culture
http://www.bhubaneswarbuzz.com/citizen-bloggers/read-reply-king-kharavela-underrated-indian-history-rohit-patnaik
I am glad some revolutionaries such as Lokmanya Tilak never had any influence. That guy was a destructive and regressive agenda for independent India. For eg he was against lowering of the age of marriage of girls to 12! That was too high for him!! I ask Hindutvadis who mock Mohd for marrying Ayesha at age 9, what is exactly is the difference between you and Mohd if you have no issue with Tilak?
DeleteYSV, there is a regressive hindutvadi group on twitter who call themselves "hindu trads". They support child marriage and wish that all hindu girl should to be married by 15 so that they are not enticed by sullas (term for muslims) by love jihad and also because of the rapid fall in the hindu population in the age group of 0-4 (https://sringeribelur.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/links-to-articles-on-demographics-of-various-regions-by-shanmukh-saswati-sarkar-dikgaj-and-aparna/) These trads also recommend honor killing for women who marry sullas or pretas (term for christians) as they don't want a sulla or preta to be born form a hindu womb. They also support dowry, sati, strict celibacy before marriage etc.
@Anu
DeleteIts unbelievable that Twitter bans Milo Yianapoulos, but doesn't ban such groups.
@YSV
Delete"That just depressing to hear. Great! Who needs physical activity and defense training when you can spend your time listening to 4 hour speeches about the class struggle. "-- Oh that class struggle :) So u know of that term,used by CPI and CPM day and night,online and offline. God knows what class they are struggling against.And even as they aspire to bring a classless society,they still cant take an open stance against the reservation system which prevails in india strongly. their idea of class is pretty much abstract .
"Why look at the independence struggle consisting of Gandhi, Patel and Nehru , they basically attempted to talk the British out of India LOL-committees, commissions, studies, conferences etc. etc. The British were secretly snickering behind their backs all that time and who can blame them?" - To be honest ,Gandhi had reached his best only once,that is the quit india movement,but before that,all he did throughout the 1920s and 30s was wastage of time,and allowed the british govt to reinforce itself properly.However Gandhi's real contribution was in making the Hindu mobilisation,albeit in a peaceful decrepit way,but still the awareness for independence among the hindu population of the nation was something Gandhi did manage to bring out.Along with that,he also made the INC a platform for future leaders to rise.But overall,all i feel is that the hindu civilization would have routed the british way back in 1920s itself,if Gandhi had never appeared in the scene.Hindus never lacked martial spirit through history,Gandhian ways only weakened that.
@YSV
DeleteU nailed that.the Hindutva vadis on twitter largely a hypocrite lot,rational hindutva is thoroughly missing in the sangh parivar base.
@Anu
DeleteTHere are weirdos like these who exist. But wonders how much traction they get in the real world. I couldnt find those views in the links you sent me, they speak mostly of demographic decline but not the methods to fight it with which I assume includes early marriage.
In an earlier era, with a more shorter life span and hence children maturing early. Perhaps marriage at age 12 night have made sense at that point.
There are Hindutvadis of a more progressive inclination who blame such customs on Muslim culture of kidnapping teenage single gilrs but were less likely to do so if they were married. I dont know how true this.
The same holds for north Indian marriages occurring at night so as to not attract Muslim generals with a roving eye who would abduct the bride.
One of the major problems I have with the Modi government is that he let these crazies loose. I personally dont think he shares these crackpot views but he is beholden to the RSS and VHP as that is the only life he knows and his knship and bonds with them are greater than family.
Hence he did nothing when RSS killed Muslims in Gujarat or now going around killing people in the name of gaurakshak, countering love jihad etc.
Much as he would like to stop them, his hands are tied as they made him and they can break him.
@ysv: I only shared the articles to declining demographics of Indics. The writers of these articles are progressive & do not share the views of those trads.
Delete@premchand: these trads constantly delete their tweets, use code words or use short forms like HK for Honor Killing. Even if they are banned or suspended, they create new accts and interact. They are mostly keyboard warriors & can't do a thing in real life.
Demographic trends are not written in stone. 25 years everyone expected Palestinian and Israeli Arabs to enjoy a majority over Israeli Jews due to the prevalent trends but there has a baby boom among Jewish women and decline in fertility of Arab women.
DeleteTraditionalist societies such as Catholics and Muslims often deal with modernity with crashing fertility rates . For e.g Iranian fertlity rate went from 7 children per woman (!!) in in 1979 to barely 1.8 today.
The Iranian regime is terrified that it may be unable to fill its military quota in the near future.
"In an earlier era, with a more shorter life span and hence children maturing early" ---
Delete1. YSV, what was the general age of marriage pre-colonial (or rather pre-islamic era) India ?
2. Besides, is maturing early same as hitting puberty earlier ? If yes, then i think girls are hitting puberty earlier in our times compared to 100 years ago.
@Premchand
DeleteMilo is a self proclaimed provocateur who got banned I think for comparing a black actress to a man and others follwoing him compared her to Harambe the gorilla. While Milo himself is not racist(he is Jewish with a black boyfriend) he helped normalize and associated with lots of shady white nationalists and conspiracy theorists.
In his ongoing feud with conservative stalwart Ben Shapiro(a kippah wearing Orthodox Jew), he posted a picture of a black baby after Shapiros wife had just delivered to imply that he had been cuckolded by a black man. More of his follower posted photos of dollar bills leading to a gas oven(in a crude reference to Aushwitz and a stereotype of Jewish greed for money). All the while Milo winked at this.
Meanwhile he is a buddy with conspiracy theorist Alex Jones(whom the captain plagiarized from quite a bit). Among other crank notions he believes that Michelle Obama is actually a transexual pre op man and analyzed many videos to show the way she walks and adjusts her crotch that something doesnt add up.
Apart from this he calls Donald Trump "daddy" . He really helped create a personality cult for Trump in imitation of many in Hollwyood and the media did for Obama in 2007/2008.
Trump himself winked at these people and declined many invitations to condemn neo Nazis and KKK leaders who supported him. Of course they are all smarting now with all his pro Israel policies. While I understand he had to win an election and had an uphill battle and needed all the purple fingers possible, all of his children are either converts to Judaism or involved with Jews romantically, it was a morally impure thing to do.
Anyway coming back to Milo, I dont like any people being banned and twitter is certainly is left leaning but when go around shit posting and provoking people in that manner , the hammer will be struck down at some point.
And don't forget when Trump even retweeted some memes like Pepe the frog and Star of david before winning election. Milo's fanbase is filled with alt-right and he's self declared leader of alt-right along with other rightwing eceleb on Twitter. It's really interesting with alt-right and hardcore Nazis who hate alt-right and believe that it's a tag given by kikes (jews&msm) to discredit and group every rightwinger and some even believe that milo is controlled opposition, the hole goes deep for American rw lol
DeleteI have no issue with Pepe though it was appropriated by Nazis for their agenda.
DeleteAll in all what a year was 2016- A New York Billionaire with no political experience is pushed to the front of the pack by a combination of internet fanboys using a cartoon frog representing the Egyptian god of chaos and blue collar voters. He abuses Iowa voters for being stupid and yet comes in second in their primary. Winks at neo nazis and their Aushwitz memes and yet prays and the Wailing Wall with his Orthodox Jewish son in law and convert daughter(who keep kosher and dont work on Saturdays). Bragged about grabbing women by their privates , hit on married women. And yet he won with majority of white womens vote and a higher share of Latino and black vote for a Republican since George W Bush.
If even 2 years ago, a screenwriter would submit this script to a studio head, he would be laughed out of the office and would suggest him to pitch it to South American film makers as they specialize in magical realism!
It is a cliche but truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
Hehe the Egyptian god stuff is really interesting. I think maybe those guys unlocked some freakish spirit that helped Trump in 2016, that's the only rational explanation for Trump's victory lol
DeleteBut Trump is just a politician and he'll let down his supporters like every other politician. I genuinely feel bad for all the edgelords who worked hard in the 2016 meme war for their god emperor Trump.
So far I would say Trump is doing a good job on the domestic and foreign policy front.
DeleteHowever anyone who campaigns on the basis that he can fix all problems is either deluded or dishonest.
The advantage of Trump is that he is not a politician so he is not constrained by past convention. Hence he said fuck it -Ill declare Jerusalem capital of Israel, why keep favoring the moribund parasitic NATO, why keep funding the corrupt UN, why send military aid to terrorist friendly Pakistan etc.
Of course this has its drawbacks, I think his taunting of Kim Jong Uhn(short and fat, rocketman) and apocalyptic talk is dangerous as that regime is quite unpredictable as it is so insular that even South Korean intelligence have no idea whats going on.
I believed that Trump had a chance of winning but he was really his own worst enemy on the campaign. He had an energy, charisma and brusque persona that people were drawn to but at the same time, he would undercut and undermine his own strengths with often immature and bizarre pronouncements and tweets which the media would amplify and distort even more.
DeleteAlso he was running against Hillary clinton- the most entitled,shameless,greedy corrupt,incompetent, unhealthy, unlikeable , vicious, charmless and lethargic politician alive. But then she had Hollywood, the media, Google, Facebook,Amazon, Wall Street, Silicon Valley and the entire political establishment whether left or right on her side.
I always thought it would be a toss up - a race of who is disliked the least . But then in October there was a precursor to the Black Swan even in November. The Chicago Cubs who hadnt the championship in over a 100 years finally won the World Series. The media spinned it as a good omen for Chicago native Clinton(serving under another corrupt Chicago machine politician Obama) but something else was at play here....
Yeah but i think muslim ban and Trump wall got him vote and attention but he's nowhere near fulfilling them.
DeleteThere is some confusion regarding the "Muslim ban". During the campaign he wondered out loud if all Muslims irrespective of citizenship(including Western) should be allowed into the U.S.
DeleteBut what was placed into effect (after nearly a year of blocking by rogue judges) was actually attempted by the Obama administration in their last few months. And it was a select list of Muslim majority which even other Muslim countries dont want as refugees.
The Trump wall is under construction. However the populace will forgive even if there is no wall as long as he doesnt double crosss them on DACA and amnesty. he doest that and he can forget about 2020.
Trump wall I feel will be over by 2019. What is its cost anyway?
DeleteAs for DACA and amnesty, I think he'll get them through, that is, if the courts are not in the way, see how the legal system was used to scuttle his crackdown on H-1B visas.
I have a query: With courts being a hindrance for Trump, will Americans understand that and forgive him, in case he fails to fulfill at least some of his policies by 2020? He seems to have made some good moves within the country and also outside like you mentioned. I read about them in the https://fee.org/ website to which I subscribe.
Now BJP is in power now what is stopping them to bring out true facet of delhi sultanate and mughals in NCERT's?
ReplyDeleteagree with u,bjp is not doing enough on many fronts.However on a state level,Maharashtra and UP state govts have implemented complete rewriting of history in school level books,with reduction of islamic history and increase in content of the history of hindu dynasties.but at the union level,bjp is not doing anything.
DeleteLoksabha elections 2019 are going to be very crucial and tough for BJP, i haven't any single major step taken by them for Hindus, useless demonetisation, highest tax in the world in the form of GST and nothing else.
DeleteSC Bose was also left party due to gandhi.
ReplyDeleteCommon child marriages at that time may have effected tilak's ideology.
Mohammad have many rennouned attrocities he had done like looting, killing, one fifth rule booty distribution in name of allah are enough to proof he was terrorist.
That is the problem with Tilak-unable to think ahead. That era was where Indians were exposed to all manner of Western culture and traditions and later marriage and education for girls was one of them. SImply stating that that was the custom and hence he didnt want to touch isnt an excuse. This makes him no better than a Wahhabi who use tradition to hinder progress and equality.
DeleteSavarkar was a great leader because he went not only against the British and the Muslims but also Hindu moribund and toxic customs himself such as untouchability, child marriage ,blind deference to shastras. He fought a threefront ideological and physical war. "Lokmanya" the author of the ridiculous Aryans in the Arctic isnt worth stepping in his shadow.
What Mohd had done was no different from the customs of the warring tribes at the time. What was objectionable about Mohd to his people who were townfolk is that he used barbaric Bedouin methods of rape and pillage.
However these found their way into the Quran and the Quran later on was codified as a divine revelation and Mohds habits worthy of emulation. If the latter hadnt occured around 11th century AD, then Muslims would have the option of observing the Quran as European Christians do today or started doing 300 years ago i.e pick and choose what they please and ditch the rest. There would be terrorism sure but there would be a more vocal and more powerful Muslim body opposing it.
Anyway what is the Islamic world is going through today maybe the equivalent of the 30 years war between Protestants and Catholics. Such wars and brutalities often leave the population demoralized and disenchanted with the cause of war and may seek to re evaluate their religion as European Christians did with Westphalia and Muslims may do soon with the help of Turkish reformers of Islam such as Fethullah Gulen.
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ReplyDeleteHeavy Metal is not life. It is death, despair ,cynicism and nihilism. The band is called Mega DEATH for a reason. Do you think before you type?
ReplyDeleteAnd "Farthullah"? How old are you? 9?
Islam is created by man(for the most part) and hence can be molded by man into something else.
Christian was just as all encompassing for Europeans as Islam is for the average Muslim. And it underwent a transformation.
Middle Eastern peoples invented the civilization which the Europeans based theirs own.
I thought you grew up, matured and stopped spouting mindless giberrish to score cheap points. Guess not.
The Armenian genocide had religious as well as secular motivations. The Turkish position on the Armenian issue is shameful no doubt. However that has no bearing on this matter.
THere are a lot Turkish intellectuals whose idea of reform is considered blasphemy by even mainstream or moderate Muslims never mind Wahhabis. By virtue of Turkish history and its geo political and cultural presence , Turkey and hence Turkish intellectuals hold a lot of prestige.
As you speak there are protests occuring in various cities in Iran. And according some reliable reports the police and some paramilitary are refusing to inflict violence on them.
Signs are encouraging.
Rao ji,
DeleteWhen I said heavy metal is life, I meant I loved heavy metal more than anything else. I didn't go into the technical details then.
So puns on names are immature? Okay, never mind.
As for Islam, we all saw how all attempts at reforms ended up. Reform in Islam means changing the Qur'an, which is unthinkable in Islam. Islam might have been created by man, but the main character Mohammad's words are considered infallible and ultimate. How can it be reformed? I have no idea. Please help me here!
Okay, leave out the Armenian genocide for now.
Your statement on moderate Muslims considering reforms by Turkish intellectuals as blasphemy only strengthens my stance: Reform is impossible.
As for protests in Iran, more power to the Iranians and god bless them. I pray that they succeed, though I'm afraid of what they might face at the hands of the Ayatollahs' henchmen.
Admittedly I presented myself in a haphazard way, as usual.
However I can't forget this comment of yours:
http://empiresoflight.blogspot.in/2013/10/indian-philo-semitism-and-judaic.html?showComment=1511265191586#c5023842577858282475
I said it in 2015, you were shocked in 2017.
Who knows, you might get shocked and agree with what I said yesterday, somewhere in 2019 or 2020.
You are technical, I am practical. What sounds like immature mindless gibberish today will become crude reality tomorrow.
Puns are not immature. Immature puns such as what you made are immature.
DeleteThe initial attempts of reforms of Christianity such as The Reformation also created extreme intolerance. Same went with the Islamic Salafi "reformations". Both were essentially a fundamentalism myopic view of their religions.
Christianity went through an Enlightenment to rid it of its fangs. Islam needs one itself.
So I agreed with you by somewhat reforming my views once. Even then I was a fan of increased federalism so meeting you halfway wasnt impossible. Also we come from two different approaches. Your lens is that of extreme xenophobia and bigotry. Mine is liberty,cultural self determnination and state rights.
"You are technical, I am practical"
Whatever helps you get through the day dude.
"What sounds like immature mindless gibberish today will become crude reality tomorrow."
So you will take that comment of mine agreeing with you and squeeze it for all its worth. That is pitiful. I dont know how else to respond to this except even a broken clock is right twice a day. Keep your ego in check with regard to your analysis.
Nothing else you predicted seem to have come true, if at all you made any more predictions.
Ji,
DeleteI never made any other prediction anyway. This one was the only one.
But is reform even thinkable in Islam? Islam needs enlightenment no doubt, but I don't see that happening. As far as I can see, Saudi has lost its position of dominance in the Islamic world and Erdogan's Turkey has risen to the top. Iran's Mullahs are not even in the picture here.
I feel Erdogan will prevail. We've seen this play out for the past 14 centuries the same way. At some point of time, we think Islam is ready for reform, but some bigot comes and derails it all.
It's not helping myself get through the day, it's the plain truth. Yes, I have no technical and in-depth knowledge as you do, but then I see things with respect to their actions, especially in the recent past. Now that's being practical.
I concede in everything else.
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ReplyDeleteWell "breaking India" is happening in Maharashtra,I think we will see more of hardik patel,jignesh mavani type characters and such "events" in the upcoming year with 2019 elections around the corner
ReplyDeleteSankranti and Pongal wishes to everybody on this blog. Have a great year ahead.
ReplyDeleteYSV Rao, your Recent Comments is not working.
ReplyDeleteHaha pity on your Pea-brained Analysis. You said in South India, Muslims never created a problem to hindus until no hindutva was introduced ...are you stupid.. The malappas in kerala aided Tippu sultan's raids in Kerala. And in your blog you yourself wrote about Muslim invasion and torture while writing about Gandikota , kammas, reddys's etc.. THis is my first day i read your articles... You negate yourself.. DOnt tr to be Capt Ajit vadakayil.. your pea sized brain aint capable of doing that. Inshort NIku antha scene ledu babu. Musukoni kurcho.. tappudu matalau cheppaku.. radical muslim and christisns are always a threat to hindus.. Niku burra ledani ardam ayindi.. beef tintey healthy ela avutaru ra fooooool
ReplyDelete@unknown garu waadu pedda lanja donga Atanu itarula nuṇḍi ālōcanalanu kāpī cēśāḍu
Deletecaptian gāḍida uṇṭē appuḍu atanu gāḍidalu oṇṭigā unnāḍu Atanu pandi ṣiṭ cālā tiṇṭunnāḍu Andukē atanu hindūnu dvēṣistāḍu. I might b a Muslim put I support bjp
This self hating Telugu Vadakayil supporter not only low self esteem but low IQ as well. Not only are Vadakayil supporters stupid but they are moral and physical cowards which is why they dont wish to express this retarded views in a language everyone can understand.
DeleteUnknowngaru, your hiding behind the madhura bhasha Telugu will not help you. I will translate and expose your stupidity
Basically the gist of this dimwit is this" You dont have the status to talk. Be quite and sit down. I understand you dont have a brain. How can anyone be healthy after eating beef"
Well mr bootlicker of Vadakayil who kisses his shoes after the captain abuses telugus on a regular basis. Let me tell you this.
Cow maybe your mother (it would explain your bovine intellect) but not mine. I have a human mother and father and I am quite happy with just one set.
I am happy to eat beef and be strong. Vegetarians like you are only good at taking beatings from Muslims and Christians which is why you hate them so much.
Telengana and Andhra have the highest percentage of meat eaters in India , if you hate it so much move to UP and lick the boots of Hindi speakers.
"You said in South India, Muslims never created a problem to hindus until no hindutva was introduced ...are you stupid.. The malappas in kerala aided Tippu sultan's raids in Kerala. And in your blog you yourself wrote about Muslim invasion and torture while writing about Gandikota , kammas, reddys's etc.. THis is my first day i read your articles... You negate yourself.."
You are beyond stupid. I never said that Muslims werent a threat. Where do you get this. My point was that Hindus werent sitting ducks for Muslims and in the south they fought back in time even after destruction of Vijayanagar. Hindus and Muslims learnt to coexist and form a sort of composite culture only because Muslims found it impossible to deal with polygars warlords and in turn Hindu courtiers influenced Muslim sultans to a considerable extant that their jihadi tendencies were muted.
Ashraf Ali mee amma pandi muddi naakutundi marri mee nana Netanyahu suli chaparistaru. Pandi marri garida mee ammini dengicheru , alaage nuvvu puttevu. Anduke neeku anta ukrosham.
Delete