Koenraad Elst agrees with more on Hinduism vs. nationalism
Earlier I enquired as to the supremacy clause of Hindutvadis- is the nation state of India or Hinduism that defines them and which they will choose when push comes to shove?
Koenraad Elst lays out the case that Hindutvadis are worshipping a false idol of nationalism ,particularly the 19th century European variant based on ethno linguisitic homogeniety which is a bad fit for India. Savarkar in one of his less than bright moments said this -"one nation, one culture,one language, one religion" which brings us to current day BJP's assault on other modes of Hinduism apart from the safe and sterile Brahmin Vaishya variety which is the composition of BJP.party leadership.
What is lacking is the recognition of Kshatriya and Shudra virtues and all the meat eating , bull fighting and animal sacrifices that come with it. Without these aspects India will remain a hollow shell and slave state for years to come.
That is the heavy price you pay when when the Hindutva brigade attempts to strangle other cultures in the name of national unity.
As my readers, I am not overly impressed with the Indian army and I think individual border states(apart from Gujarat and Kashmir) can deal with Pakistan. Well at one point Punjab couldve handled Pakistan single handedly, such was the terror of the Sikhs in the Pakistani mindset that they worked actively to sabotage them through Khalistan and through the drug problem and it has worked . Alas! But no matter, Haryana is there to pick up the slack.
Seriously no country needs an army the size of the Indian army to handle Pakistan.
I cant really buy the argument that we need an India with such concentrated power to handle China and Pakistan. The Himalayas have prevented Chinese incursions for 1000s of years. It is only their navy that has to be checked.
A European style federation with mandatory conscription for a limited time, strong para military and police forces and repeal of the Arms Act is the most elegant solution to having secure borders(the only rationale for India existing) and more importantly protecting Dharmic culture.
It is another matter Dharmic culture is eroding faster due to modernity and its inability to adapt its socio political structure than due to Delhi Sultanate, Mughals, Bahmanis or the British.
@YSV
ReplyDeletethough i disagree with a few points in ur article,but still that wont stop me from acknowledging the sheer quality of ur writing :) reading ur blog is a treat for the mind.
Just to keep it short,I am highlighting only those points where i disagree with u,for the rest ,I am in complete agreement.
"That is the heavy price ..." -- Not to blame Savarkar alone,this concept of allencompassing nation worship was dreamt by many more freedom fighters of that era.There's no doubt on their sincerity or passion,but the basis of the integrating nationalism is fundamentally flawed.However,again to keep things in proper perspective,this type of idea was reqd to some extent in the pre independence india.But now ,the way Sangh or RSS is trying to implement it,with Hindi (or Hindu maybe :) ? ) Nationalism,is thoroughly off the track. and now they are propagating a new "cultural " nationalism,where every muslim,xtian,parsi ,jew is originally a hindu,since they live in india :) SOmetimes I get a feeling that the rightwing Hindu nationalist base of india would have been better off without the RSS.
"Seriously no country needs an army.....I cant really buy the argument...." -- While a large standing army may not be reqd,a strong bsf with huge manpower(more than what it has currently ) is still reqd to keep Pak and China under control.And a fleet of tanks&missiles to back them up.thats pretty much everything India needs to keep Pak and china under control,because unless some drastic things happen ,like a world war 3 or something like that,China and Pak are not going to attack India with full force,anytime soon .And in the case they are planning an invasion,a mechanised and numerous BSF would always deter them from taking the final call.
Regarding ur point on the size of indian army,I hold a contrary opinion though.I believe a large standing army is required for a nation like india,whether they are taking active part in wars or not.Infact I wont mind if the govt of india decides to add up a few more battalions also(for example,they are raising a new battalion for mountain combat,with approximately 40000 Jawans,to be deployed in sensitive areas along china border).But at the same time,the forces need to be mechanised and coordinated.
Himalayas have deterred many a invader across millenia,but things are not like that anymore,or so I feel .Himalayas are no more a bar to China invading india,the bars are now economic issues,and business considerations in a global market,and to worsen things up from chinese view,an ill-disciplined army of china,which is also not sure whether it is there to serve the nation or the ruling Communist party :) .China is not even attacking Taiwan at this moment,so india is a far cry for them at this point.
"A European style federation with mandatory conscription ..." --- The only difference is that europe is not being threatened externally by hostile nations,though it is being slow poisoned with islamic refugee influx.But India doesnt enjoy that good an enviornment in its vicinity.Hence a confederation may not be the right or best thing at this moment,but somewhere in future,when things get sorted out,and asia becomes a more peaceful place,it will surely be the best way to go.
"It is another matter Dharmic culture is eroding..." --- This is something the Hindutva vadis cant get straight :D Delhi sultanate to british ,the whole era didnt see huge damage to hindu culture.some parts did get islamised like the eastern part of bengal or northwestern frontiers.but they would have subscribed to islam anyway,whether in fear or due to the fact that medieval hinduism never seemed a great religion to them,with its crap of casteism.Infact the current problem of rising islamic radicalism in india is not very directly linked to the medieval islamic conflicts with hinduism.For example,way back in 1930s,i saw a picture of a batch of girl students in Aligarh university,not a single one of them was wearing a burqa.but now,in 2017 ,u wont see a single woman without the burqa.Hence what i wish to say is that its no use cursing delhi sultanate or mughals for the ongoing demographic problems and religious fanaticism.These problems need to be solved as per the modern understanding .
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ReplyDelete"with its crap of casteism" --- aah,don't forget the sati :). Sorry for the digression here but in all seriousness while we can all talk about the "hindoo law" or manu smriti which the Brits enacted, how are you sure that it was strictly endogamous and very heavy oppression took place? I was reading about the frequency of R1a Y chromosome haplogroup (paternal) - so called proto Indo European,it seems it has a high frequency among tribal group /so called dalits too ( though the brahmins do have a higher %) .As far my personal observations go, I have seen mongloid features in West Bengal people irrespective of castes and australoid features in brahmins of Bihar, jharkhand,Orissa. So, I am definitely not seeing an strict endogamous segregation here .
ReplyDelete-----------------------Earlier I enquired as to the supremacy clause of Hindutvadis- is the nation state of India or Hinduism that defines them and which they will choose when push comes to shove?-----------------------------------------------------------
ReplyDeleteFor Hindutva project, blood, soul and earth are inextricably linked mutually. Our objective is to unite all Hindu peoples into one great Hindu state.
Since Hindu religion fosters pan Indian nationalism (read Hindutvavaad) and pan Indian nationalism in turns gives protection to Hindu religion by uniting Hindus, what sense does it makes to ask - “Hindutva or Hinduism”. Hinduism without Hindutva is a toothless defenseless entity.
At least you have a Hindu regime ruling at Delhi controlling key States in India. This is the regime which has cut foreign funding to anti-Hindus, cancelled registrations of anti-Hindu NGOs and bankrupted umpteen numbers of anti-Hindu elements by demonetization and is investigating Love Jihad cases for terror links. It may not be perfect, but what is the alternative?
----------------Koenraad Elst lays out the case that Hindutvadis are worshipping a false idol of nationalism ,particularly the 19th century European variant based on ethno linguisitic homogeniety which is a bad fit for India.------------------------------
Savarkar has clearly stated that India is nation since the beginning of history. A fact justified by events in ancient history like Indians uniting to fight invaders like Arabs, Huns and Ghaznavids. It was the same feeling to free India from alien savages which spurred Rana Sanga, Shivaji Raje and Baji Rao. He used 19th century European nationalism only as a means for rallying and organizing. His ideas and objectives are entirely rooted in soil and history of India.
---------------------Savarkar in one of his less than bright moments said this -"one nation, one culture,one language, one religion" which brings us to current day BJP's assault on other modes of Hinduism apart from the safe and sterile Brahmin Vaishya variety which is the composition of BJP.party leadership.What is lacking is the recognition of Kshatriya and Shudra virtues and all the meat eating , bull fighting and animal sacrifices that come with it. Without these aspects India will remain a hollow shell and slave state for years to come.-------------------------------------------
Savarkar meant Hindu nation, Hindu culture, Hindu language (not English or Urdu) and Hindu religion (not Christianity and Islam). He was not speaking about banning Tamil or Telugu.
As for assault on other modes of Hinduism – if these other modes of Hinduism are not fit to last, then why care for it? Besides, there is no Hindutva project to finish off regional cultures of India except in the minds of conspiracy theorists and rumor mongers.
You need bull fighting, meat eating and animal sacrifice not to become a slave state?????? Facts prove otherwise. Most wrestlers from Haryana are vegetarians. Brahmins from Eastern UP and Bihar who are vegetarians have a rather great martial tradition. After all, did not Shivaji Raje, a five foot five inch vegetarians slay the seven foot tall meat eating Afzal Khan?
It is mindset that matters most.
Even for meat eating castes like Rajputs and Marathas, meat was never consumed daily. In fact, it was not meat but millets which formed the staple diet of castes who had war like career. The moment consumption of millets fell and rice consumption increased manifold, physical fitness was also affected adversely.
---------------------As my readers, I am not overly impressed with the Indian army and I think individual border states(apart from Gujarat and Kashmir) can deal with Pakistan. Well at one point Punjab couldve handled Pakistan single handedly, such was the terror of the Sikhs in the Pakistani mindset that they worked actively to sabotage them through Khalistan and through the drug problem and it has worked . Alas! But no matter, Haryana is there to pick up the slack.----------------------------
ReplyDeleteBiggest mistake made by Indians during last 2000 years was the neglect of frontier areas. How do you expect Border States to fend for themselves without support from rest of India? You say Pakistan is weak? Their regular army is 600,000 strong with same number in reserve thus totaling over a million soldiers. And you are not dealing with Pakistan as a country. They represent an ideology that is inimical to Indian civilization (that is radical Islam) and have support from their Sunni brothers abroad like Saudi Arabia and forces like China. How do you expect small borders states to last in face of such overwhelming threats?
------------Seriously no country needs an army the size of the Indian army to handle Pakistan.I cant really buy the argument that we need an India with such concentrated power to handle China and Pakistan. The Himalayas have prevented Chinese incursions for 1000s of years. It is only their navy that has to be checked.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Did Alps prevent Hannibal from invading Italy? And why was it that Romans survived Hannibal’s victories at Cannae, Trebia and Trassimeine? One crucial reason was that they had forces that were numerous.
Did anyone expect Hitler to invade Soviet Union? Why did Soviet Union survive? One main reason was that Russian troops proved too numerous for the Germans to deal with.
No one can predict future. In future, if we have to plunge ourselves into bloodbaths like Punic Wars and Second World War that will cost millions of lives, we should be ready for that.
--------------------------A European style federation with mandatory conscription for a limited time, strong para military and police forces and repeal of the Arms Act is the most elegant solution to having secure borders(the only rationale for India existing) and more importantly protecting Dharmic culture.-----------------------------------
ReplyDeleteJambudweep or Bharatavarsha or India is a very sacred concept. Our sacred books are very clear on the fact that India is one unit and that only those who are born in this land can attain Moksha. Besides, ancient Brahmin teachers had been constantly exhorting their Kshatriya disciples to unify the whole India and become its Chakravarti. India for centuries had been crying to be unified. Any idea that India is only an arrangement for self defence is not true in light of ancient Indian thought. Unification of India by a Kshatriya Chakravatin is a dream that was held throughout history.
If India had remained united, areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan and Bangladesh would not have become Islamic today.
Unpleasant fact about Europe that not many would like to hear is that it is nothing but a network of vassal states dependent on USA for protection. As for conscription and repeal of Arms Act – yes they are needed very much. In fact, I would suggest that children – male and female – be trained in war from kindergarten onwards. Considering the number of enemies India has, we should be teaching kids throwing grenades rather than cricket balls.
---------------------------It is another matter Dharmic culture is eroding faster due to modernity and its inability to adapt its socio political structure than due to Delhi Sultanate, Mughals, Bahmanis or the British.---------------------------------------------
Do not worry. It will survive. It had encountered plenty of disasters and will outlive present crisis as well – because of 2 reasons. One, Dharmam represents eternal truth which will win sooner or later. Two, at least some people care for it and does whatever they can to preserve and promote Dharma.
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here is the garbage list of fake intellectuals
ReplyDelete1) SUHEL SETH 2) PRITISH NANDI 3) DILIP CHERIAN 4) PRANNOY JAMES ROY 5) AROON PURIE 6) VINEET JAIN 7) SHEKHAR GUPTA 8) SAGARIKA GHOSE 9)RAJDEEP SARDESAI 10) SHOBHAA DE 11) BRUKHA DUTT (0) " AJIT VADAKAYIL"
NOTE : captain vadakayil should be grateful he is mentioned in this list
here is the garbage list of fake intellectuals
ReplyDelete1) SUHEL SETH 2) PRITISH NANDI 3) DILIP CHERIAN 4) PRANNOY JAMES ROY 5) AROON PURIE 6) VINEET JAIN 7) SHEKHAR GUPTA 8) SAGARIKA GHOSE 9)RAJDEEP SARDESAI 10) SHOBHAA DE 11) BRUKHA DUTT (0) " AJIT VADAKAYIL"
NOTE : captain vadakayil should be grateful he is mentioned in this list