Wednesday, December 10, 2014

Animal Sacrifices were INTRINSIC to Vedic Hinduism- Part 2

[Irrelevant rubbish deleted]

 
Dharma has attributes like  rationality, sense of duty, justice, peace, truthfulness, hospitality, kindness , respect, compassion, non-violence, rectitude, humanity, spirituality, fairness , patience, self restraint , tolerance, ethics, service to others, right to life , natural justice, virtue, morality, bonafide work and philanthropy.  Dharma thus truly symbolises universal values of humanism and forms the basis of global ethics.

 
 
Tadrisho ayam anuprashno yatra dharmaha sudurlabaha
Dushkamha pralisankhyatum tatkenatra vysvasyathi
Prabhavarthaya bhutanam dharmapravachanam kritam
Yasyat prabhavasamyuktaha sa dharma iti nischayaha

 

 
It is most difficult to define Dharma. Dharma has been explained to be that which helps the upliftment of living beings. Therefore, that which ensures the welfare of living beings is surely Dharma.  The learned rishis have declared that that which sustains is Dharma.-- Bhishma to Yuddhistra -Mahabharata
 
Chapter and Verse would be helpful. But anyway..... This is taken from Shanti Parva in the Mahabharata. There are lots of things about this that are problematic. Firstly most scholars do not accept that this was part of the original canon of the Mahabharata but smuggled in during the Bhakti era.
Also it is written by not by hunters and warriors who populate the Mahabharata or atleast certainly not their POV. Otherwise how can a ruler ensure the welfare of ALL living things. You can protect only so many deer and buffaloes without starving lions ,tigers and other carnivores. And if left unchecked the deer destroy vegetation turning the landscape barren as what happened to great parts of North Africa when the Romans pretty much imported all the lions and the foraging animals ate up all the greenery turning that region barren.
 
[Irrelevant rubbish deleted]


 
All Mankind is One Family- Rig Veda 5000 BC, 1.164.46
 
Already discredited...
 
Hindu dharma has no founder, the word Sanatana implies that it always existed.  Dharma is anything that upholds or sustains a positive order. Hindus consider that loyalty to one's moral values is the highest loyalty, and of all the losses, loss of one's character and conscience are the worst. 

 
Morality proceeds from the inner spirit of man. In Hindu dharma , one's motive is as important in the performance of an action as the action itself. Harmlessness to all life on earth is of the highest morality . 
 
How absurd . Should we be harmless to wild animals that intend to attack us. The locusts that eat our crops? The bandits who attempt to steal and rape?
There is nothing in Hinduism that advocate such absurd pacifism.

 
Hindus place greater emphasis on the attitude of the mind rather than on postulation of the elaborate theories of what is right and what is wrong as in other religions (like the ten commandments ).  The purity of the heart is important.  Sanatana Dharma is not restricted to Indian boundaries but it is universal.
 
Have you not read the Manusmriti? It makes the Ten Commandments and Moses sound like a kindergarten teacher by comparison!

 
Hinduism is not just mere faith. It is the union of reason and intuition that cannot be defined but is only to be experienced.  When we live in accordance with the divine law of dharma, we are in harmony with truth and move toward spiritual advancement.
 
I don't know about you dear reader, but I feel my eye lids getting heavier as I read this feel good New Age rubbish

 
Since Christianity and Islam were born they have filled the earth with violence, drenched the soil with blood again and again . They have destroyed  civilizations, and sent whole nations to despair.
 
The record of Islam and Christianity isn't sparkling. But the civilizations they attacked mostly were already on the decline)Rome, Persia, India) or barbaric to begin(Germans, Central Asian).
 
 
The world is now coming back to the mother of all religions Hinduism—the west call as PAGAN.   
 
No. Apart from some Christian fundamentalists to whom even Catholicism is pagan, few in the West who have any knowledge of Hinduism do not confuse it with European Paganism. Pagan was simply the Latin word for country dweller as in the early Christian era, most Christians were concentrated in the city and the nature worshippers in the hinterland.
Any educated westerners considers Hinduism to be far superior to Paganism if not now but in the past.
 
 
Hindusim is 110 centuries old, while Christianity is 20 centuries old and Islam is 14 centuries old. This is the only religion without fundamentals or lack of compulsions.
 
Hinduism is based on Vedas and Puranas,the building blocks of Hindu religion. The moral codes is enshrined in the Manusmriti. Of course Smriti being law is not set in stone and Shruti such as Vedas and Puranas take precedence. And Yajnavalkya reformed that rather harsh code of Manusmriti.
 

 
Sanatana as “eternal moral order” encourages Hindus to seek truth wherever it might be found, each individual must realize this truth through his or her own systematic effort.
 
The problem with this claim is that Prophet Mohammad reached the truth by his own "systematic effort". Don't you see the contradiction in terms? If each person defines his personal system to his liking , how can it be systematic?

 
You don’t have to live in India to be a Hindu. You could be a Catholic living in England, as long as you have a conscience, live in harmony with nature ,  grateful for her natural bounties, do not dominate and harass other living beings, have inherent grace and know your “duties”.. You must understand that human beings are just but a link in this symbiotic chain of life and consciousness.
 
You cannot define Hinduism as you see fit. A Catholic in England(normally you have more Anglicans and Protestants in England but whatever) is NOT a Hindu. And please don't make up your own private definitions of what constitutes a Hindu.
Indeed if a Catholic in England is a Hindu what is the harm of those Chutney Mary and Pickle Johns who you hate so much moving to such countries or even a mass conversion of Hindus to Catholicism. Hey they are still Hindu after all!
 
Four qualities that keep a person the path of dharma are purity, compassion, austerity and truth- Bhagawad Purana.
 
Most of the Bhagawad Purana was compiled in the medieval Bhakti era when learning was well in the decline.
'आनृशंस्यं परो धर्म:


Compassion itself is ultimate Righteousness (Mahabharat 3.373.76)

I cannot find this verse. In which parva is it? As metioned before in the vasudhaiva kumtumbam passage , there is good reason to be suspicious of quotes taken out of context. 
Anumantaa vishasitaa nihantaa krayavikrayee,   Samskartaa chopahartaa cha khadakashcheti ghaatakaah-  Manusmrithi 5.51

 
Those who permit slaying of animals; those who bring animals for slaughter; those who slaughter; those who sell meat; those who purchase meat; those who prepare dish out of it; those who serve that  meat and those who eat are all murderers.
 
Manu like Ashoka was notorious for imposing his pet peeves on society. Just so you know Manuvaadi is a term of abuse by the Shudras and Dalits.
Either way, this was superseded by Yajnavalkya's reform of the moral code.
 
Breehimattam yavamattamatho maashamatho tilam,  Esha vaam bhaago nihito ratnadheyaaya dantau maa hinsishtam pitaram maataram cha-  Atharvaveda 6.140.2

O teeth! You eat rice, you eat barley, you gram and you eat sesame.  These cereals are specifically meant for you.  Do not kill those who are capable of being fathers and mothers.
 
My god what a mistranslation!
 
This is the actual verse

VI, 140. Expiation for the irregular appearance of the first pair of teeth.
1. Those two teeth, the tigers, that have broken forth, eager to devour father and mother, do thou, O Brahmanaspati Gâtavedas, render auspicious!
2. Do ye eat rice, eat barley, and eat, too, beans, as well as sesamum! That, O teeth.. is the share deposited for your enrichment. Do not injure father and mother!
3. Since ye have been invoked, O teeth, be ye in unison kind and propitious! Elsewhere, O teeth, shall pass away the fierce (qualities) of your body! Do not injure father and mother!


 
Please note there is nothing here about inhibiting of eating living things(capable of being fathers and mothers) but it is really a prayer for the first teeth of an infant. A somewhat playful plea to the baby to eat healthy grains and not bite its parents (mother and father)
 
 
 

 
Ya aamam maansamadanti paurusheyam cha ye kravih,   Garbhaan khaadanti keshavaastaanito naashayaamasi-   Atharvaveda 8.6.23

We ought to destroy those who eat cooked as well as uncooked meat, meat involving destruction of males and females, foetus and eggs.
 
I couldn't find this verse in Sacred Texts or any other original source. There is simply no 8.6.23 in the Atharvaveda.

 

 
Anago hatya vai bheema kritye,  Maa no gaamashvam purusham vadheeh  - Atharvaveda 10.1.29

 
It is definitely a great sin to kill innocents. Do not kill our cows, horses and people.
 
Ok once again. Serious mistranslation. Keep in mind Atharva veda is a book of "spells" or quite simply pleas to various gods to remove maladies and curse enemies
 
This is the original
 
29. Slaughter of an innocent is heinous, O spell: do not slay our cow, horse, or serving-man! Wherever thou hast been put down, thence thee do we remove. Be lighter than a leaf!
 
In other words it is a please via a purohit of Angiras lineage(mentioned earlier in the verse) to drive away curses inflicted upon the party. And no harm should their valuable property such as horse,cow or servant!
 
 
Aghnyaa yajamaanasya pashoonpahi-   Yajurveda 1.1
 
“O human! animals are Aghnya – not to be killed. Protect the animals”

From the Black Yajur(the above is no mentioned in the White Yajur)
 
i. 1. 1.
a For food thee, for strength thee!
b Ye are winds, ye are approachers.
c Let the god Savitr impel you to the most excellent offering.
d O invincible ones, swell with the share for the gods,
Full of strength, of milk, rich in offspring, free from sickness, from disease.
e Let no thief, no evil worker, have control over you.
f Let Rudra's dart avoid you.
g Abide ye, numerous, with this lord of cattle.
h Do thou protect the cattle of the sacrifice.
 
 
In other words far from imploring vegetarianism and ban on cow slaughter, actually it is prayer and oblation of cow sacrifice to Savir(proto Vishnu) and that Rudra(associated with Shiva but also wild animals and diseases) do not harm the cow so that is suitable and available for sacrifice.
Quite a different thing than what was implied by the captian/agniveer wasn't it?
 
Pashunstraayethaam-    Yajurveda 6.11
Protect the animals.
 
At this point I am really beginning to lose any benefit of doubt that all of these are mistranslations. These are clearly misinterpreted with an agenda in mind. And that is plain dishonesty , if not blasphemous
 
Here you have 6.11
 
Prajapati assigned the sacrifices to the gods; he thought himself emptied; he pressed over himself the power and strength of the sacrifice in sixteen ways; that became the Sodaçin; there is no sacrifice called Sodaçin; in that there is a sixteenth Stotra and a sixteenth Çastra, therefore is it the Sodaçin, and that is why the Sodaçin has its name. In that the Sodaçin is drawn, so the sacrificer bestows power and strength upon himself. To the gods the world of heaven [1] did not become manifest; they saw this Sodaçin, and drew it; then did the world of heaven become manifest to them; in that the Sodaçin is drawn, (it serves) for the conquest of the world of heaven. Indra was the youngest of the gods, he had recourse to Prajapati, he bestowed on him the Sodaçin, he drew it; then indeed did he attain the summit of the gods; he for whom knowing thus the Sodaçin [2] is drawn attains the summit of his equals. He draws at the morning pressing; the Sodaçin is the thunderbolt, the morning pressing is the thunderbolt; verily he draws it from its own birthplace. At each pressing he draws; verily from each pressing he produces it. At the third pressing he should draw (it) for one who desires cattle; the Sodaçin is the thunderbolt, the third pressing is cattle; verily by means of the thunderbolt he wins for him cattle from the third pressing. He should not draw (it) in the Ukthya; the Ukthas are offspring and cattle; if he were to draw (it) in the Ukthya [3], he would consume his offspring and cattle. He should draw (it) for one who desires cattle in the Atiratra; the Sodaçin is the thunderbolt; verily having won cattle for him by the thunderbolt, he calms them later with (the Çastras of) the night. He should also draw (it) in the Agnistoma for a Rajanya, for a Rajanya sacrifices desiring distinction; verily in the day rite he grasps a bolt for him, and the bolt kindles him to prosperity, or it burns him; the twenty-onefold is the Stotra used, for support; what is recited has the word 'bay' in it; he obtains the dear abode of Indra [4]. The smaller metres were among the gods, the larger among the Asuras; the gods recited the larger metre with the smaller on either side; then indeed did they appropriate the world of the Asuras. In that he recites the larger metre with a smaller metre on either side, verily thus he appropriates the world of his foe. They make six syllables redundant; the seasons are six; verily he delights the seasons. They place four in front [5]; verily he wins four-footed cattle; two last; verily he wins two-footed (cattle); they make up an Anustubh; the Anustubh is speech, therefore speech is the highest of the breaths. When the sun is half-set, he sets about the Stotra of the Sodaçin; in this world Indra slew Vrtra; verily straightway be hurls the bolt against his foe. The sacrificial fee is a reddish-brown horse; that is the form of the bolt; (verily it serves) for success.
 
Clearly this is a mystical scenario where Prajapati and Indra are concerned.
This has nothing to do with a prohibition of killing animals but ensuring that no harm comes to your own cattle and sons due to improper propitiation of the gods
Dwipaadava Chatushpaatpaahi-   Yajurveda 14.8
Protect the bipeds and quadrupeds!

The original:
8 Guard thou my breath. Guard my out-breathing. Guard
my through-breathing. Illume mine eye with far-reaching
vision. Give power of hearing to mine ear. Pour
forth waters. Quicken plants. Protect bipeds. Protect
quadrupeds. Send rain from heaven
 
This is the sacrifice during the monsoon season so. Note the order-pour forth waters. Protect bipeds, protect quadrupeds. Simply a prayer to protect humans and livestock from flooding.
 
Meat eaters have always been looked down in Vedic literature.  They have been known as Rakshasas, Pisacha and so on….All these words are synonyms of demons or devils that have been out-cast from the civilized human society.    

Sorry wrong. There were vegetarian Rakshasas as well. The ones who were out cast were usually those who stole and ate animals from sacrifices or practiced cannibalism.


 Yajna never meant animal sacrifice in the sense popularly understood.   Yajna in the Vedas meant a noble deed or the highest purifying action.

LOLL. Take up that definition with the authors of the Yajur Veda and see how far you get.

 Agne yam yagnamadhvaram vishwatah pari bhuurasi, Sa id deveshu gacchati-   Rigveda 1.1.4
 
 O lord of effulgence! The non-violent Yajna, you prescribe from all sides, is beneficial for all, touches divine proportions and is accepted by noble souls.

 
The actual verse




 

Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about

 
Verily goeth to the Gods.
Nothing to do with "non violent" yajna!


 


 


The Rigveda describes Yajna as Adhvara  or non violent throughout.  Same is the case with all the other Vedas.    

Adhvara in some contexts means non injuring. But in the context of a sacrifice it means uninterrupted.

The white invader injected poison into the Sanskrit verses using their arm twisted ( vulnerable ) stooges whom they took to England.  

How are sacrifices poisonous? Please explain

Not complying meant no return passage on a Rothschild ship , getting BURIED after death ( NO cremation ), which was unthinkable for a Hindu.

Children and sages who attain Samadhi are often buried.Lingayats are buried to this day.
 
The white invader used MEDH to befuddle.  The biggest accusation of cattle and cow slaughter comes in the context of the Yajnas that derived their names from different cattle like the Ashwamedh Yajna, the Gomedha Yajna and the Nar-medh Yajna.   Even by the wildest stretch of the imagination the word Medha would not mean slaughter in this context.

There is no bigger befuddler than you dear captain
 

Imam ma himsirekashafam pashum kanikradam vaajinam vaajineshu--- Yajurveda 13.48

Do not slaughter this one hoofed animal that neighs and who goes with a speed faster than most of the animals.
 
The full context:
47 Injure not, thousand-eyed, while thou art building for sacrifice,
this animal, the biped.
Accept as pith man's counterfeit the victim, Agni: therewith
building thy forms, be settled.
Let thy flame reach man's counterfeit: let thy flame reach
the man we hate.
48 Harm not this animal whose hooves are solid, the courser
neighing in the midst of coursers.

 
Ill be honest. I have little idea as to what all of this means. But do note the participant is imploring Indra not to harm the biped(man) or his horse.
Again I don’t see a specification against horse sacrifice as we have seen before those who wish to sacrifice would offer unblemished animals.

Ghrtam duhaanaamaditim janaayaagne maa himsiheehYajurveda 13.49
Do not kill cows and bulls who always deserve to be protected.
 
The original:
Thousandfold, with a hundred streams, this fountain,
expanded in the middle of the waters,
Infinite, yielding butter for the people, harm not, O Agni,
in the highest region.
This wild bull of the forest I assign thee: building thy
bodies up therewith be settled.

 
Once again, a misinterpretation. He is referring to one specific bull and certainly doesn’t say all bulls and cows deserve to be protected!

Aare gohaa nrhaa vadho vo astuRigveda 7.56.17
Cow slaughter is a heinous crime equivalent to human murder 
 The actual translation
So may the Maruts help us and be gracious, bringing free room to lovely Earth and Heaven.Far be your bolt that slayeth men and cattle. Ye Vasus, turn yourselves to us with blessings.
Yet again. The passage certainly doesn’t equate cows with humans but cautiously and sheepishly praises Maruts for NOT bringing their terrible weapons which can kill humans and cattle en masse!

Sooyavasaad bhagavatee hi bhooyaa atho vayam bhagvantah syaama,  Addhi trnamaghnye vishwadaaneem piba shuddhamudakamaacharantee  - Rigveda 1.164.40
The Aghnya cows – which are not to be killed under any circumstances– may keep themselves healthy by use of pure water and green grass, so that we may be endowed with virtues, knowledge and wealth.

A divine cow which is spoken of here is very different than the mortal cow!

 
Aghnyeyam saa vardhataam mahate soubhagaayaRigveda 1.164.27
Cow – The aghnya – brings us health and prosperity

“That wretched man who kills living creatures for the sake of those who would eat them commits great sin. The eater’s sin is not as great. That wretched man who, following the path of religious rites and sacrifices as laid down in the Vedas, would kill a living creature from a desire to eats its flesh, will certainly go to hell. That man who having eaten flesh abstains from it afterwards acquires great merit on account of such abstention from sin. He who arranges for obtaining flesh, he who approves of those arrangements, he who kills, he who buys or sells, he who cooks, and he who eats it, [acquire the sin of those who] are all considered as eaters of flesh. [Therefore] that man who wishes to avoid disaster should abstain from the meat of every living creature. (Mahabharata 115.44-48)  4000 BC


 Actually Mahabharata is dated around 3200 BC (Krishna died on 3102) but whatever. Please state the parva. As we have seen Shanti parva has been discredited.

Suprapaanam Bhavatvaghnyaayaah-   Rigveda 5.83.8
There should be excellent facility for pure water for Aghnya Cow

8 Lift up the mighty vessel, pour down water, and let the liberated streams rush forward.
Saturate both the earth and heaven with fatness, and for the cows let there be drink abundant.

Nothing against cow slaughter..
Yah paurusheyena kravishaa samankte yo ashwena pashunaa yaatudhaanah,  Yo aghnyaayaa bharati ksheeramagne teshaam sheershaani harasaapi vrishcha--  Rigveda 10.87.16
Those who feed on human, horse or animal flesh and those who destroy milk-giving Aghnya cows should be severely punished.


The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human bodies,

Who steals the milch-cow's milk away, O Agni,-tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.
 


again DIVINE COW and DIVINE HORSE! Not the mortal cow as will become clear in the next verse

saMvatsarINaM paya usriyAyAstasya mAshId yAtudhAnonRcakSaH
pIyUSamagne yatamastitRpsAt taM pratyańcamarciSA vidhya marman
 
17 The cow gives milk each year, O Man-regarder: let not the Yatudhana
ever taste it.


A cow giving milk once a year? Isnt that a completely useless cow if one is to assume it is the mortal flesh and blood cow!

A Yatudhana is a breed of vampire or evil spirit(depends on usage). Why would one care if a supernatural entity drinks some milk lying around haha! But it makes sense if the divine cow spoken of is really tantric symbolism for your bodies healing and nourishing ability contributing to youth and a long life. Of course you would not want a vampire to taste the milk of THAT as his powers would be increased.

 To be continued..
 

3 comments:


  1. "Firstly most scholars do not accept that this was part of the original canon of the Mahabharata...." - Yes much of the Mahabharata is actually added up by a multitude of writers through the ages who had their own motives and agendas .Bankim Chandra,whom you have mentioned in your Bharatmata post,had systematically deduced in his Krishna-Charitra book that almost two-third of the present day 1 lakh verses of Mahabharata seems to be written in a style which does not match the original author.

    "The record of Islam and Christianity isn't sparkling." - Here also you have made a strong point.We can argue on the topic of covert propagation of violence through
    religious texts,but we cannot bash the semitic religions for aggression.The socio-political situation of those areas forced them to show aggression at that point of
    time.Probably this was a reason why Buddhism could not make a strong base in those parts.

    " The moral codes is enshrined in the Manusmriti."- according to Capt Manusmriti is fake and injected :)


    "Four qualities that keep a person the path of dharma are purity, compassion, austerity and truth- Bhagawad Purana." - Now just wait a second I had read Capt's claim that Bhagwad Purana is injected.So there you go,whatever is beneficial to Capt to round up his theories is not injected and the rest can be thrown into garbage!


    "At this point I am really beginning to lose any benefit of doubt that all of these are mistranslations. These are clearly misinterpreted with an agenda in mind. And
    that is plain dishonesty , if not blasphemous" - and our Capt never fails to remind us in subtle ways that he is a genius when it comes to interpretation of ancient
    literature.YSV I have not learned Sanskrit yet,I would like to learn it in the future :) but seriously I took his translations to be accurate!I pity the readers who follow him earnestly :)


    "Lingayats are buried to this day." - As far as I remember Capt does not have a particularly positive opinion on Lingayats.So ultimately it is our Capt who has New
    World Order agenda :)


    Anyway the main point is that Sanatana Dharma is just too broad to be analysed in a particular set of coordinates.But after reading Capt's views on animal slaughter
    and vegerarianism in many of his comments in his blog,I think Capt forces these principles on Sanatana Dharma only to counter Buddhism. It is said that Buddhism is incomplete Hinduism,so what's the use moulding Hinduism into the limits of Buddhism?Asking this will make you a Zionist stooge :)

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  3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb18kkVlRh4

    He is an airforce officer. The aliens he is talking about sounds erily similar to the demons/gods/serpents of our mythology !. Draco constellation is associated with Daityas.

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