Hindus should be wary of joining forces with Western pagans


There are all sorts of movements about where Western Pagans who reject their Christian heritage wish to rediscover their own heritage with the help of the only thriving(??) or rather existing ancient Indo European/Neolithic religion which is Hinduism.

One of the problems I have had with Sitaram Goel is that he believed in a  dichotomy of monotheism bad and polytheism good ,thus ironically falling into the same binary mindset of monotheism that he claimed to abhor.

Firstly not all all polytheistic religions are born the same. The religions of Assyrians and Babylonians relished bloodshed,cruelty and genocide of their neighbors. Contrary to the idea that all polytheistic religions got along together, there are many instances where they committed cultural genocide on each other.

We know so little about Druid culture of Britain because Romans burnt all their literature not Christians. Greeks did the same to the Persians when they burnt Persepolis down to the ground where a lot of Persian religious texts were lost forever.

In our modern age, Sinhala Buddhists destroyed a great part of Tamil heritage when they deliberately targetted the Jaffna library. The Tamils who were not shrinking violets when it came to cultural violence bombed the Buddhist Temple of the Tooth in Kandy.

Similarly a lot of Western pagans are just social misfits and include many criminal elements not to mention Satan worshippers who bought into the Christian idea that non Christian religions are Satanic. As such many of them dismiss  notions of good and evil as "Christian hang ups" are actively in pedophilia and other deviant practices.

There is also the matter of white nationalists and neo Nazis attracted to paganism especially early Vedic belief systems which they see as pure Aryan ideals corrupted by those "inferior brown Hindus"

Certainly I am not saying the majority are into these things but there is really no quality control about who is getting into these belief systems.

If Hindus especially with their inferiority complexes and weaknesses for whites smiling benevolently at them (if in doubt look at YouTube Bollywood reaction video market dominated by white content producers) get into bed with these Western pagans, they may see even more corruption and degraded practices in Hindu religion now than before.

There is another matter of Hindus preferring whites for fighting their internal battles whether Koenraad Elst, David Frawley on one side or Wendy Doniger and Sheldon Pollock on the other.

Koenraad Elst may be admirable in many ways but he is ultimately he is an atheist and has ties to racist organizations. This has affected his work in later years to their detriment

But as long as Hindus suffer these complexes which are quite severe, there is nothing that can be done in this regard. I dont know how to deal with the problem except to first start admit that there is a problem. There is a cognitive dissonance where Hindus claim to be proud and oblivious to whatever whites think of them but instantly melt into a puddle when some whites praise them for their culture, food, religion, Bollywood or whatever.

Admitting there is a problem will require foregoing false pride and chest thumping and will go a long way to solving the countries problems as well.

Comments

  1. Sir,

    But I noticed those people posting in the Daily Stormer were proud Christians for the most part. They were saying Krishna was superseded by Christ or something like that.

    Greeks burned down Persepolis. Arab Muslims burned down Ctesiphon.

    And yes, the infamous gutting of the Jaffna library was a sad event where many Tamil texts were lost forever.

    Not just Bollywood reaction videos, see Tamil cinema reaction videos too. There is a guy called Jaby Koay who does that. I saw his videos for a day and moved away because I felt something was wrong.

    /There is another matter of Hindus preferring whites for fighting their internal battles whether Koenraad Elst, David Frawley on one side or Wendy Doniger and Sheldon Pollock on the other./

    So true sir, I found it odd when Tamil Nadu BJP/RSS guys (spillover from AIADMK) hid behind the likes of David Frawley to fight Dravidians (of all people!) instead of taking them head on.

    Is it even possible for Hindus to let go of their false pride and chest thumping? I am not sure.

    I think it has greatly amplified in recent years.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sir,

      No bad intentions but I think the title looks misleading. Is it not "wary" instead of "aware"? Because the meaning seems to have changed completely.

      Thanks.

      Delete
    2. YOu are correct it , it should be wary . Thanks

      Delete
    3. Sir,

      You are welcome but I did not intend to insult you. You can take down my comment if it is too insulting.

      But I noticed years ago that neo Nazis were proud Christians. Do they really hate Christianity? I am not sure so I am asking.

      Thanks.

      Delete
    4. White supremacists come in many flavors if you will. Some like the KKK are fond of christianity as they see it as their heritage and believe that Jesus was white. The original KKK had no opinion on Jews as their main focus was on freed blacks and the northern settlers after the civil war. They were crushed finally the President Ulysses Grant who was a civil war general on the northern. The revived KKK in the 1910s pretty much hated anyone who was white Protestant of British origin (The white robes and burning crosses emblematic of the KKK are rooted in Scottish culture). They even harassed German speaking Americans of which they were quite a few in many towns in the mid west and Texas. The Germans who immigrated to U.S were known for their pacific nature and were not warlike unlike the Prussian militarists. All German language presses and beer halls were banned and random Germans beaten when Americans entered WWI on behalf on Britain. Woodrow Wilson sought the help of KKK in these matters.

      Nazis and neo Nazis look at Christianity with suspicion. One of their problems with Christianity is its emphasis on universal salvation and theoretical equality of races

      Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)
      28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

      Actually they think a lot higher of the Jewish Bible as they view it as more desirably ethnonationalist. To this end, they researched considerably on ancient Germanic religion and made use of its imagery such as Valkyries and of course proto Indo European and cousin religions such as Hinduism(swastika) but Germans in general were quite attached to Christianity whether Protestant or Catholic and were in no mood for change. Hitlers and Nazis were considered radicals and a minority party who managed to galvanize the public and they didnt want to risk their popularity by uprooting German customs.

      Delete
    5. Oh I see. I did not realize this so I said and asked that. I did not know the difference between Nazis and KKK so I thought they were the same. I never saw through who was KKK and who was Nazi when I was reading the Daily Stormer. I saw them as sort of a monolith.

      Delete
    6. They were crushed finally by President Ulysses Grant who was a civil war general for the north. The revived KKK in the 1910s pretty much hated anyone who was NOT white Protestant of British origin

      Corrected some typos and omissions.

      Delete
    7. There are also reaction videos to Telugu movies. They are all just embarassing. This is not to say that foreign film critics have no value. Philip Lutgendorf is a great critic and has insights into Indian popular culture that we overlook. This way foreigners can perform a valuable function if they are objective and incisive.
      Certainly not the fake fanboys and fangirls(white girls particularly in heavy demand by the Vadakayil Bharat Mata fanatics) who see $$ in their ever expanding view counts

      Delete
    8. Reactions to Tamil movies are kinda funny. The only thing I see them doing is laughing all the way. But expressions like "Wow!", "Whoa!", etc., look really artificial.

      /Certainly not the fake fanboys and fangirls(white girls particularly in heavy demand by the Vadakayil Bharat Mata fanatics) who see $$ in their ever expanding view counts/

      Too bad I didn't think of easy ways to earn money. Maybe I should try it sometime.

      Delete

    9. "Reactions to Tamil movies are kinda funny. The only thing I see them doing is laughing all the way. But expressions like "Wow!", "Whoa!", etc., look really artificial."

      Yes I know. Its totally fake.

      "Too bad I didn't think of easy ways to earn money. Maybe I should try it sometime"

      You would have to be white to rake it in.

      Delete
  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  3. some guy named Rajiv sahni has written some nasty piece abt capt and his wife . I was shocked when I read it .I am not sure if this true or not I will let ysv _rao and others to decide.



    https://www.quora.com/Who-is-Captain-Ajit-Vadakayil

    Rajiv Sahni--- Answered Nov 14

    QUOTE: My uncle in the merchant navy used to work with vadakyil.. he used to get panic attacks and would often abuse subordinates. People used to call him captain crazy.. he was also known for sharing his wife with junior officers.. UNQUOTE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not a fan of the captain. But this sounds like trash talk. Heck I do the same, but I dont expect for people to take it seriously as is evident from my tone.
      But then captain has himself set the tone accusing everyone of all sorts of immorality , eventually it will bite him in the ass.

      Delete
    2. Personally I do not even want to think about the captain. I am not ready to undergo the same road down the abyss that affected me. Let him live happily with his conspiracy theories in an alternate universe.

      I do not bother with his personal life because I do not know about his wife and badmouthing her is unnecessary.

      Delete
    3. I got sucked into the Captain Vadakayil vortex today for a bit. I had encountered his blog before years ago, when a friend showed me his blog as a source of fun. It is full of nonsensical conspiracy theories and good for a laugh.I had no idea that he was taken seriously by anyone till i saw large number of answers on Quora which are heavily supportive of Vadakayil. I was stunned to see this.Surely so many reasonable-sounding supporters could not be completely off? Perhaps they were right and I was wrong about Vadakayil?

      As I was having these doubts, I also had a nagging suspicion — all his supporters on Quora sounded vaguely similar. Different words and answers of different length - but just a little similar in their style of writing, in their tone and in their claims about Vadakayil.

      I went and checked the profiles of the Vadakayil supporters. Surprisingly, most of them are highly suspicious.Captain Ajit Vadakayil is, among other things, the guy who executed the most elaborate ruse on Quora. Well played, Capt LOL...

      Delete
  4. Sir I have 2 queries.

    1. Why is South Sudan more unstable than Sudan under Omar Bashir? The instability in South Sudan is on another level.

    2. Who is the bigger Baathist monster: Saddam Hussein or Bashar Assad? Bashar Assad's grizzly crimes rattle the bone. Who is worse among the two?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. South Sudan suffers from the same maladies as other African nations- corruption, tribalism and mismanagement of resources. That a new African nation would be successful should be news. The default is the tragedy as I described above

      2. Saddam Hussain for sure. Saddams cruelty was arbitrary and capricious , he would control his subjects purely through fear and terror by making a public example of anyone who crossed him or even to have rumored to speak badly about him

      While the Assad family ran the country as their fiefdom, they were nonetheless more ideological and cosmopolitan than Saddam Hussein. They were much affected by Lebanon and Francophila and pursued Western culture such as classical music, ballet, jazz and so on.
      While very much a police state, the Christians of Syria had the most rights and security than anyone else in the Middle East. And Syria has atleast 10 ethnicities and sects within while Iraq just had three. Therefore Syrian despots could afford to be more relaxed as they didnt have to divide and rule , it was already done for them.

      Delete
    2. Sir,

      Thanks for the reply.

      1. I observed that cattle robbery was a precursor to brutal tribal/ethnic conflicts in South Sudan. Do Africans have anything to do with India culturally, by any chance? I recall that you said somewhere that one tribe lifting cattle from another was a declaration of war.

      2. Saddam Hussein's crimes against ordinary Iraqis was chilling but so was Bashar Assad's against ordinary Syrians. So I wondered who was the bigger monster. Both their crimes rattle the bone but I guess Saddam's was far worse since his sons were heinously torturing Iraqi sportsmen who could not win medals in any competition. All their crimes rattle the bone and a few years back I was rooting for Saddam. Shame on me.

      Delete
  5. "instantly melt into a puddle when some whites praise them for their culture, food, religion, Bollywood or whatever." --- Apart from looking upto more 'developed and civilized' people, do you think this worship of westerners has got to do something with shared ancestry(genetic) that most indians have with them ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Whatever pre historic PIE ancestry there is cannot play any meaningful role now . I can give an example of Italians post WWII, anything that was AMerican or British was a craze. Hence the famous director Sergio Leone (of Good Bad and Ugly fame) referred to himself initially as Rob Robertson and the music composer Ennio Morricone (also famous for GBU theme) went by an Anglo/American name which I forget. They even had AMerican heroes such as Clint Eastwood and other British and American stars as headlining their own productions.
      That was the depth of Italian inferiority complex which Italians today view as an embarassment. That was the aftermath of Italy losing WWII even as it fought half heartedly. They went the way of the victor and emulated them. In Germany well until the early 2000s, sperm banks recorded that American sperm was most desired for single German women who wished for artificial ensemination. Similarly Japanese women took the more direct route by shacking up with AMerican soldiers barely after Hiroshima and Nagasaki went cold. ANd this trend continues to this day.
      India being a more conservative and tribal society frowns on the approach by the axis powers upon their defeat. While it has liberated itself from British rule, it never really paid for it in blood. This is quite unnatural and gives rise to various pathologies. Self hate covered by chest thumping and fawning over whites at the same time is one of these symptoms.
      This is just speculation from my side. A academic study lead by sociologists, intellectuals and psychiatrists really needs to a measure of the Indian consciousness. The closest we have to this is V.S Naipaul's approach.

      Delete
    2. "Whatever pre historic PIE ancestry there is cannot play any meaningful role now ." --- Not talking linguistic identity but genetic ancestry which can still be detected today( The Caucasus/Iran_Neolithic ancestry can be detected even among the self-professed dravidians).

      "Similarly Japanese women took the more direct route by shacking up with AMerican soldiers barely after Hiroshima and Nagasaki went cold. ANd this trend continues to this day." --- Could be it that people of certain ethnicities are considered more attractive by a lot of folks ? (of course ,beauty lies in the eyes of beholder but apprarently it seems that white ,european men are more preferred even in other south-east asian countries , thailand for example). I am not sure if it as simple as looking up to more 'developed and civilized' though it may play a part as you wrote above.

      Delete
    3. "Could be it that people of certain ethnicities are considered more attractive by a lot of folks ? (of course ,beauty lies in the eyes of beholder but apprarently it seems that white ,european men are more preferred even in other south-east asian countries , thailand for example). I am not sure if it as simple as looking up to more 'developed and civilized' though it may play a part as you wrote above."

      It is not so much developed and civilized as it is being the victor. And victorious men are masculine and defeated men are emasculated. British and Muslim victors did have this in common- they routinely demartialized those they defeated. Most Indians today are mild mannered are conflict averse due to this double dose of disarming which they werent before. Just read some of Huien Tsangs descriptions of Indians , most of the communities he encountered he described as fierce and brave.

      Japanese and Chinese had some encounters with Europeans as traders in the 16th -18th centuries prior to their political and military superiority. Europeans were described as uncomely, dirty and hairy. 18th century English were even shorter than the Chinese or Indians for that matter.
      So relative attractiveness has a long and complicated history which cannot be summarized simply as x race being more attractive compared to y race.

      "Not talking linguistic identity but genetic ancestry which can still be detected today( The Caucasus/Iran_Neolithic ancestry can be detected even among the self-professed dravidians). "

      In a very narrow sense , if you highlight the white/whitish part of your heritage whether R1A or Neolithic Caucasus type AND make the extrapolation that whiter is purer then superior then of course Northern Europeans will be considered superior. Indian and Pakistani Muslims do a version of this with foreign Muslim heritage- the closer to Central Asia and Middle East the better. Hence you here Muslims speak of their Arab/Iran or Uzbek lineage whether real or imagined. In the defence of subcontinental Muslims, there has been a considerable migration of Muslims from these regions to India for a 1000 years. Heck the entire Persian intelligentsia of Iran and Central Asia relocated to India in the aftermath of the Muslim conquests. THis is why there is more Persian literature composed in India than in Persia. And this is why the Indian and Pak Muslim upper classes who comprise their Persians are not very martial and mild mannered. Due to Turkic domination, Persians have not been martial for more than a 1000 years.But because of the PERCEPTION that Persians are martial and tough , they are considered desirable and sure their relatively fair skin and refined features help endear them to subcontinentals as well. ALso they have a rich tradition of poetry, aesthetics and romance which women find appealing.

      The relative lack of appeal of say south Indians is not so much their looks as such but their personality. Our aesthetics is temples and Carnatic music which is not worldly, passionate or aesthetic(the rasa is geared towards spiritual rather than worldly appeal) and that affects the culture. Of course Sangam era culture was more similar to American culture than Tamil culture of today haha with men, women dancing together drinking and poems glorifying war, drinking meat eating and love making. If these views become dominant again Tamil men will become as desirable as say Spanish or Italian men.

      Delete
    4. the demartialization phenomenon not limited to other races even white males of Europe America have been victim of it post feminist era in Sweden there has been an attempt to create genderless society , in America blacks have make up large population in prison who are victims of racially profiled crimes who will serve max prison sentence with least likely hood of parole or plea bargain.the lack of male role models in black community has had negative impact.

      Delete
    5. Punjabi Sikh males have been demartialized to some extent post khalistani movement ,Punjab has drug addiction problem among youth ,sikh girls in UK and Canada are so full of lust that they run after Muslim males (drug addict sikhs can not satiate them )

      Delete
    6. "sikh girls in UK and Canada are so full of lust that they run after Muslim males (drug addict sikhs can not satiate them )" --- Damn, is it that bad ?

      Delete
    7. blacks have make up large population in prison who are victims of racially profiled crimes who will serve max prison sentence with least likely hood of parole or plea bargain.the lack of male role models in black community has had negative impact."

      Define racially profiled crimes. Murder, rape and robbery are not profiled by race which blacks are into disproportionately. And their over representation in prison may be partially their inability to hire a good lawyer to game the system but not entirely. There is no evidence to show that blacks are treatedly more unfairly than whites for the same crime in the last 40 years or so. That narrative has been debunked but is still popular with Democrats

      re Punjabis in UK

      While Punjabis in Punjab have been hit hard by the drug problem, this does not apply to the Punjabis in UK who are still a stable , prosperous community albeit with their fair share of thugs and gangs. A while ago, they were quite concerned about love jihad and Muslims grooming Sikh girls. They administered the Muslims a thorough beating after which this stopped. I would say the opposite is more likely to occur. Pakistani girls are not all under lock and key in UK and are given free reign.

      In Punjab and Delhi, Punjabi girls are courted by Haryanvi Jats who come over for the weekend to Punjab to shack up with them and return . This has been going on for a while even before the drug epidemic. Punjabi Sikhs dont care for Hindus and are seen making friendly gestures to Pakistan ala Sidhu but still dont care for their girls going over to Muslims. Honor killings are not unknown among Punjabi Sikhs in Punjab or UK.
      The closest Muslims are in Delhi and UP and I dunno about Delhi Muslims but UP Muslims like UP Hindus are also drug addicts but less potent stuff like bhang, hashish etc.

      Delete
    8. Sikhs are not drug addicted in Canada either. Certainly they dont run off with Muslims but some do marry white men. Because they are more assimilated.

      Delete
    9. "In Punjab and Delhi, Punjabi girls are courted by Haryanvi Jats who come over for the weekend to Punjab to shack up with them and return" ----

      Hahahaha, i didn't know this to be honest. YSV, btw what's the origin of jats ? The Haryanvi Jats seem to have the highest steppe_related ancestry among the groups in india studied so far(more than the north indian brahmins abd bhumihars ).

      Delete
    10. Jats are guys who migrated from Sindh about a 1000 years ago who would rear camels. It was said that a Hindu camel rearer was a Jat and a Muslim equivalent was a Baluch. Over time they migrated to Punjab and Haryana and settled down to become proficient in agriculture.
      There are lot of theories of Sakas being ancestors of Jats but they dont seem to pan out. OTOH they share common genes with Ezhavas of Kerala of all people LOL. Before this saka craze, traditionally they had a fanciful sttory of their origin of Shiva breaking his hair(jata) into two to create Virabhadra and Kali. They have no saka gotras to my knowledge.
      Jats were non martial for much of their history until Sikhs and later British militirized them.

      Delete
    11. " It was said that a Hindu camel rearer was a Jat and a Muslim equivalent was a Baluch. OTOH they share common genes with Ezhavas of Kerala of all people LOL " ---> If my memory is correct then this supposed similarity of Jats with the Ezahavas was based on Y-chromosome only(which is passed only from father to son and so like gotra). This might be due to the presence of this Y-haplogroup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20..However, as far as autosomal ancestry is concerned (which is contributed by both mother and father and contains information of ancestors from both sides going back generations), Jats are closer to North-western groups than the Ezhavas. I am attaching an image from a recently published paper
      https://imgur.com/YZsQlwq (The authors have tried to model the various groups in terms of existing ancient DNA i.e Neolithic Samples from Iran and Middle Bronze Age samples from Steppe and Onge ,a living population from Andaman & Nicobar. We don't have ancient DNA from India so the andamanese Onge who have separated from the mainland indians thousands of years ago are the proxy for 'moolnivasi' ancestry lol. I know using Onge as a proxy for pre-neolithic population of mainland india is stupid but it's the fashion these days).
      Anyways, you can see that the Jats have a very high % of Steppe_MLBA ancestry (more than the North Indian brahmins themselves). Moreover, Balochis(not present in the above image) have very high proportion of Iran_Neolithic ancestry and low proportion of Steppe_related ancestry. So, i am not sure of this close connection between Jats and Balochis. Then again, if am not wrong, Jats are more like a confederacy rather than a single group so it could that Jats might themselves be heterogenous when it comes to their ancestries.


      "They have no saka gotras to my knowledge." ----> Lol, is there a list of Saka Gotras ?

      Delete
    12. I didnt say that Jats and Balochs are related but that they are associated with the same region and the similar occupations.

      They say that Baloch came in to mingle with the Dravidian speaking Brahuis. The Brahuis remained quite powerful despite the increased numbers and cultural influence of Baloch and the Khans of Kalat were usually Brahui. Until a 100 years ago Baloch could speak both Brahui and Baloch. THe origin of Brahui is undertermined. There is a theory that they moved to the region about 1000 years ago from South India. The speculation is based on the fact that Brahui doesnt have any IA words but only Eastern Iranic such as Baloch.
      The counter theory to this is that they since they were in a sparse isolated region , no wonder bothered to really conquer and and hold on to it before the Baloch came in large numbers and hence could not influence the Brahui. This school of thought subsribes to the Dravidian presence in northwestern region either preceeding or even accompanying Indo Aryans.
      The former theory is of course popular with the OIT , the latter with the AIT crowd as you may suspect

      Now regarding sakas, Im so old that I participated in usenet discussions(kind of a like a proto reddit) from 1996. This is from 2001 from a very knowledgable Mallu christian named Ranjit Mathews

      > what are some of linguistic/cultural/surname manifestations have the
      > Ach./sakas/pahlavas left in india?
      Chavala & Jaula = Gyula in Hungarian (from a Central Asian title for a
      chieftain). Sun worship/ Sun temples: Saura Rajputs in India related
      to the ancient Iranian Sauromata (sp?) west of the Caspian; gave name
      to Saurashtra. The Saka era (calendar) used by astrologers. Buddhist
      relics - Bodhisatvas, Nalanda, etc. Mahayana Buddhism, which affected
      the evolution of Hinduism, turned Brahmins into vegetarians, etc.
      Salwar kameez.

      Delete
  6. YSV, what's the % of indians that woupd be 'hindus' as per you ? Please don't quote 78%, the census figure of 2011 as it's useless. I would be pretty sure that the numbers won't even be 50% as a significant chunk of dalits are 'hindus ' on paper because govt doesn't recognize SC status within Christianity. On the other hand,Most of the urban folks are degenerate hedonists.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not as pessimistic as you regarding the proportion of Hindus however to be sure the 78% is ridiculous when pretty much every state records atleast 12% of Muslims or higher. And the number of Christians is comically under reported particularly in places in AP and TN , even Bihar for that matter.
      For sure in AP and Telenganga, it is much higher than the ridiculous official of 6% or whatever it is. It could be atleast double or even thrice that. No way of knowing for sure because as you say Dalits and SCs convert but retain their castes for college and government jobs quotas. This is an open secret but no one is willing to bother speaking up.

      No need to dismiss urban folk as hedonists. We are not the Taliban! What matters are not their personal life choices unless they become so corrupt that society collapses ala the Weimar Republic or Iran today

      Coming back to Christians, it is interesting that those who convert can become quite fundamentalist while Muslims in AP for instance are Muslims in name only and have pictures of Venkateswara and Sai Baba in their homes. Here is one salafi type Muslims expressing frustration
      https://muslimmatters.org/2015/01/16/who-are-you-the-story-of-muslims-in-rural-coastal-andhra/ here

      We were ushered into the home by its owner, an RMP doctor called Sai Basha. The gate pillar has an image of Ganesha embedded in it. As we walk into the home, we see pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses on almost every wall. There is also a picture of Christian icons of Jesus and Mary. Then we are ushered into the inner most room which houses a small temple with all the material for pooja arrayed before some more pictures of Hindu gods in the center of which is an idol of Venkateshwara (the presiding deity in Tirupati).

      These are Telugu speaking Muslims of AP , of course the Urdu speaking Muslims of Telengana are far more orthodox in their approach to Islam. A rule of thumb- the more likely a Muslim is to speak regional languages rather than Urdu, the more likely he is to be assimilated and patriotic.

      Delete
    2. These are Telugu speaking Muslims of AP , of course the Urdu speaking Muslims of Telengana are far more orthodox in their approach to Islam. A rule of thumb- the more likely a Muslim is to speak regional languages rather than Urdu, the more likely he is to be assimilated and patriotic.

      Forgot to italicize the preceeding passage from the site. Just to be clear, the comments in this post which I repeated are mine. Not from the site.

      Delete
  7. "even Bihar for that matter" --- Interesting , i didn't know that. Are you sure you didn't want to mean Jharkhand (which has a lot of tribes) ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes I guess Jharkhand has more converts than Bihar. But Kurmi and Yadav(major castes in Bihar) converts are not a rarity anymore which they used to be about 20 years ago.

      Delete
    2. "But Kurmi and Yadav(major castes in Bihar) converts are not a rarity anymore" --- Surprising considering the ruling parties of Bihar in the past two decades came from these two jaatis. I always thought it's mostly the SCs who converted.

      Delete
    3. Technically Yadavs are considered tribes in Bihar, only recently they became castes. Becoming Yadav is really a trend that started about 40 years ago. Even Laloo Prasad Yadav isnt really a Yadav as such but came from a Chaudhary caste. Many of them retain tribal habits. Since about 30 years ago, Yadavs in AP/Telengana went from about 3% of the population to well over 10%. Its the same trend of every shepherd and pastoral caste and tribe adopting this name due to the prestige associated with Lord Krishna.The ancient ruling families in Bihar which gave rise to Guptas, Mauryas, Sungas, Kanvas as well as some Rajput clans have been scattered and destroyed. Many fled to either Bengal, Gujarat, Maharashtra or even AP and Karnataka. All are remaining are tribes masquerading as upper castes.

      In AP , there is no shortage of Kamma and Reddys who converted. Do keep in mind, it is always economic and social upliftment that is appeal of Christianity , many are genuinely attracted to the theology. But in the Reddy community anyway they are unable to do away with their favorite diety of Venkateswara. Even Christian YSR Reddy would do darshan whenever possible. Contrary to Hindutva propaganda, it was he who banned missionaries in Tirupati area. Of course he and his family were quite corrupt and siezed land around Tirumala area and other places but he didnt give it away to missionaries haha. It was just standard political corruption with any ideological motivation.

      Delete
    4. just like adding prefix" singh " to surname was a trend among dalits sub castes of bimaru states

      Delete
    5. Singh is simply too generic so I guess they can get away with it.But surnames like Rajput, Suryavanshi are actually rather comical and suspicious. No real Rajput will have a surname like Rajput hahaha

      Delete
  8. "Becoming Yadav is really a trend that started about 40 years ago." ---- I think it started a bit before that


    "Even Laloo Prasad Yadav isnt really a Yadav as such but came from a Chaudhary caste." ---- Correct me if am wrong but he is from Ahir jaati. I don't think Chaudhary is a caste .



    "The ancient ruling families in Bihar which gave rise to Guptas, Mauryas, Sungas, Kanvas as well as some Rajput clans have been scattered and destroyed." ---- What about Bhumihars of the gangetic plains ? Do you think they cpuld be the remnants of these ruling clans ? The recent genetic study showed that Bhumihars have very high Steppe related ancestry (similar to that of brahmins).

    ReplyDelete

  9. "Becoming Yadav is really a trend that started about 40 years ago." ---- I think it started a bit before that"

    When do you think it started. Perhaps when the first British census was conducted in 1900 when everyone had to take a last name. But it really picked up steam in the 1960s.



    "Even Laloo Prasad Yadav isnt really a Yadav as such but came from a Chaudhary caste." ---- Correct me if am wrong but he is from Ahir jaati. I don't think Chaudhary is a caste ."

    I find it hard to believe he is an Ahir. Ahir are West Asian invaders who got Yadavized so to speak about 1000 years ago. But they are found mostly in Western India such as Maharashtra, Gujarat, Haryana, Rajashthan and Western UP. Not in Bihar
    Chaudhary is a someone who is a tax collect(chauth referring a quarter of revenue collected) and this responsibility was given by Muslim governers to upper castes. In North India, these were usually Thakurs and Rajputs. AP is the only state in southern India which has Chaudhary(such as the loathsome Renuka Chaudhary) because Kammas were appointed tax collectors by state of Hyderabad while Reddys were in the police.

    "The ancient ruling families in Bihar which gave rise to Guptas, Mauryas, Sungas, Kanvas as well as some Rajput clans have been scattered and destroyed." ---- What about Bhumihars of the gangetic plains ? Do you think they cpuld be the remnants of these ruling clans ? The recent genetic study showed that Bhumihars have very high Steppe related ancestry (similar to that of brahmins). "
    Bhumihars are not native to Bihar, they came in the aftermath of the Hunnic invasions. Either displaced from western regions or Huns themselves(which may explain their steppe ancestry).
    A lot of north Indian Brahmins are really of Saka and Huna lineage. These guys really took to Hinduism and became champions of it but also imposed a lot of their own regressive customs which we still see today. All in all they were mlecchas who polluted Hinduism despite their zeal.

    ReplyDelete
  10. "When do you think it started. Perhaps when the first British census was conducted in 1900 when everyone had to take a last name. But it really picked up steam in the 1960s." ---- Yeah around the same time when they tried to categorize each jaati across four-fold varna hierarchy and we had nearly every jaati claiming kshatriyas status(even the ones who are in SC today like Jatavs).

    "Bhumihars are not native to Bihar, they came in the aftermath of the Hunnic invasions. Either displaced from western regions or Huns themselves(which may explain their steppe ancestry). " ---- Interesting piece of information. Could be true.

    "A lot of north Indian Brahmins are really of Saka and Huna lineage." ---- Some of them could be https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakaldwipiya. but nearly all brahmins even the ones in the south show more Steppe ancestry compared to their neighbouring jaatis( this might be because a lot of brahmins in the south have migrated from northern regions in the past 1200 years) but i would say that some of ancestry might not have to do with Saka/Huna migrations.

    ReplyDelete
  11. "Bhumihars are not native to Bihar, they came in the aftermath of the Hunnic invasions" ---- YSV, just asking but what makes you think that they are not native to Bihar ? I have never heard of this before tbh. Did you read this at historum btw :) ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I posed this question at historum and was immediately submerged with accusations and reflexively defensive answers from two Bhumihars there as well as their upper caste fan boys. It then aroused my suspicions about their claims.
      Now Bhumihars claim to be Brahmins as well as Kshatriyas. This is a strict nono for Brahmins. Now sure Brahmins are not forbidden from taking up weapons during time of war but that does not make them Kshatriyas. Kshatriyas have a specific rituals associated with them as well as symbolic function.
      And really these guys werent really considered Brahmin until the 18th century or so. They have this in common with another warrior Brahmin community -the Chitpavans of Maharashtra. Dehashtha Brahmins also served as warriors but made no pretense to being Kshatriya and even today they treated Chitpavans as fakes and interlopers. Brahmins are divided into which Vedas they are specialize in or sub specialize. Some Brahmins have a history of being proficient in more than one of the shakhas, hence the title Dwivedi, Trivedi or the generic Dikshit/Dikshitar(provider of knowledge). Chitpavans adopting Dixit is quite comical as they have no history of the Vedic learning
      Same goes for Bhumihars. Furthermore they seem to have exactly zero in common with any of the Vedic clans such as Yadavas and Kurmis/Kunbis. Even allowing for the strong possibility that the bulk of Yadavas and Kurmis are mostly tribals, even so they dont care for the traditional agrarian farming communities who are the ancient backbone of India when in north or south. And associate simply with Thakurs and Rajputs in UP. The latter are mostly Huns.

      Delete
    2. One thing that irritates me a great deal is whenever I try to look for info on a particular caste that is NOT from wikipedia, I come across blogs belonging to individuals of said caste who simply copy and paste all of wikipedias content and not even attributed the source. This Bhumihar idiot and theif below for example, soaks up the praise and thanks his dimwitted supporters for their comments

      https://sachinsharmacusat.blogspot.com/2011/12/origin-of-bhumihar-clan-of-brahmins.html

      This is not restricted to any community, everyone whether Reddy,Kamma,Nair, Vellala, Nadar, Patel, Jat etc etc indulge in this. Seems intellectual honesty and academic integrity are foreign concepts to Indians.

      And if it is original input, then invariably we find incredibly wild claims such as Chandragupta Maurya being a Jat, even Virabhadra and Lord Shiva is a Jat! (this is from jatland). One Nadar website I read stated that Phoenicians learnt the alphabet and art of making wine from them. And that Jesus heard of Nadars through them and praised them and hence Nadars became Christian. I mean really. There is zero attempt to be scholarly and incisive.
      On the other hand hand we have Pakistanis who believe that they created Indus Valley Civilizations while simultaneously believing they were the invading Aryans who destroyed IVC. IF that wasnt stupid enough ,people like Hassan Dani who is well respected mused about IVC being abandoned because they left to become Muslim due to prophet Abraham who was living in the same time period. Or some such rubbish

      History is simply a joke in Indian circles. Each community wishes to impose its own agenda and comes up with fantastic and wild claims. Part of the problem is the arrogance of the Indians who are engineers, scientists, businessman etc. They think history is simply reading some book and regurgitating the same. Hence you have bankers like Shrikanth Talageri and computer scientists like Subhash Kak having a go at history and throughly butchering in the process. But hey they are smart because they are good at X so therefore they can be good at Y. Not realizing it takes years and decades of discipline and learning just so that historians dont make such fantastic claims.

      Delete
    3. " taking up weapons during time of war but that does not make them Kshatriyas. Kshatriyas have a specific rituals associated with them as well as symbolic function" --- Yeah true , most famous example being Shivaji who had to go through a lot of trouble to 'officially' claim the title of 'kshatriya' :)

      "And really these guys weren't really considered Brahmin until the 18th century or so." --- Yes,Just like Kayasthas, they were initially classified as shudra during the early british censuses. Seems someone has updated this in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumihar lol . All this nonsense comes from trying to see the 'Hindu' society from the smriti based framework. You can find people whose ancestors probably didn't hear Manusmriti or even came under it's jurisdiction burning/abusing Manusmriti. LMAO.

      "Furthermore they seem to have exactly zero in common with any of the Vedic clans such as Yadavas and Kurmis/Kunbis" --- what makes you think farming groups Kurmis/Kunbis were vedic clans ?

      " And associate simply with Thakurs and Rajputs in UP. The latter are mostly Huns. " --- Another strong assertion lol. A Rajput guy on twitter was saying that rajputs are mostly descended from the gupta lords and their ancestors used to be bureaucrat under them. The rajput fold itself seemed to be quite open with a lot of warrior tribes who were sanskritised late calling themselves rajputs.

      " then invariably we find incredibly wild claims such as Chandragupta Maurya being a Jat, even Virabhadra and Lord Shiva is a Jat!" --- Hahah lmao.

      "On the other hand hand we have Pakistanis who believe that they created Indus Valley Civilizations while simultaneously believing they were the invading Aryans who destroyed IVC" --- even bigger lol.

      "Seems intellectual honesty and academic integrity are foreign concepts to Indians." --- I think this is no wants to label their ancestors as foreigners or backwards. Hence, you have people conjuring up wild facts.

      "Hence you have bankers like Shrikanth Talageri and computer scientists like Subhash Kak having a go at history and throughly butchering in the process" --- Haven't read subhash kak but talageri is not that bad ,right !!!

      Delete
    4. To be clear I have no objection to any jaati learning the Vedas and performing rituals as a Brahmin just as I have no issue with whatever caste ascending to Kshatriyahood if they won their kingdom by conquest. Of the former we have Vellalas in Sri Lanka and Lingayats in Karnataka in the past who did the job of Brahmins , of the latter you had Kakatiyas, Hoysalas etc who were of low caste origin and were quite conscious of it and in fact celebrated themselves as superior to the solar and lunar races.

      However I have no patience for false claims. If your community has no history of performing rituals or learning Vedas, dont go around calling yourself Brahmins. Similarly tall tales of martial history or ruling kingdoms should not be a basis for Kshatriyahood

      I was speaking specifically of Rajputs and Thakurs in UP, not Rajputs in general who have varied origins whether Gujjars, Rashtrakuta, Chalukya, Kurmi, Yadav etc.
      Thakurs have names and gotras which sound like ancient Scythian and Hunnish names. Which is why I mentioned. I will try to find the sources

      Agrarian/warrior communities as a rule tend to have strong roots in the community. Even as far as Janaka, father of Sita, would perform the ritual of ploughin the field(where Sita was found) .
      Rajputs, Nairs and Maravars historically for instance look down upon manual labor while Kammas and Jats take pride in tilling their own fields. Maravars as per Sangam became Tamils around 5th century. Nairs are an isolated unique community tied to an immigrant priestly caste Nambuthiris while Rajputs have considerable pastoral heritage with the attendant contempt for farmers.

      Shrikanth Talageri indulges in PN Oak type crank etymologies finding Alinas as Hellenes( Greeks) etc. Some of his work is OK(no pun intended) such as his position that the distinction between Vedas and Puranas is artificial which I agree with . But when he reverses the chronology and places PIE in Bihar, things become hard to digest.

      Koenraad Elst took this a step further and speculated that Aryans were living happily in Bihar when the Mundas came and invaded pushing them out and changing the physical anthropology of Biharis(who then resembled Iranians I suppose)Thus reversing the AIT with no basis in fact.

      I am all for speculation but atleast provide circumstantial evidence for the same.

      Delete
    5. since you were talking about indians and history , have you come across TrueIndology ? Do you find him good ? For me, i personally came to know a thing or two from him.

      Delete
    6. I checked it out. Its alright. Somewhat more informed than your average Hindutvadi. But I cant claim that I didnt know atleast 80% of what he posted already.

      Delete
  12. "Thakurs have names and gotras which sound like ancient Scythian and Hunnish names. Which is why I mentioned. I will try to find the sources" ---- Yeah, please do mention the sources. I am interested in knowing their scythians and hunnish gotras.

    " But when he reverses the chronology and places PIE in Bihar, things become hard to digest." ----- I haven't come across this.perhaps, i missed it.


    "Koenraad Elst took this a step further and speculated that Aryans were living happily in Bihar when the Mundas came and invaded pushing them out and changing the physical anthropology of Biharis(who then resembled Iranians I suppose)" ---- hhahaha lol, with that being said, there was major genetic study done on Mundas done recently and the authors hypothesize the mundas males ancestors came from south-east asia and admixed with the local females
    https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/scientists-solve-genetic-puzzle-surrounding-mundas/article26509093.ece
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327812363_The_genetic_legacy_of_continental_scale_admixture_in_Indian_Austroasiatic_speakers

    I don't think Mundas were capable of pushing the Aryans out. Besides, the aryans lived in now bihar while Mundas in Jharkhand. Well, tbh ,i wonder how did the ancient Biharis look like !! One can only find out after getting ancient DNA from Bihar but i do think that the ancient Biharis didn't look like a lot of present day ones (i am excluding brahmins and bhumihars who generally have high steppe ancestry and might not be autochthonos to Bihar)

    ReplyDelete
  13. Sir,

    Ugadi/Telugu New Year wishes to you and your family and friends. May this year bless you with tremendous success.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I don't no how many of u followed latest development "Nautanki " vadakayil threatens to quit the blogging world for the third time ,he has deleted few posts to show his seriousness .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. my message to captain is stop creating the drama if u decided to quit don't make a comeback after month ,we wont miss you plzz stop playing games with emotions of ur followers for selfish reasons .

      Delete
    2. I did see the latest post. apparently its regarding comments about his wife really flipped his lid. Seems that not enough of his bhakts are on quora and hence werent able to downvote those comments like good little slaves. One wonders why he cares, I spoke trash about his wife so many times. Why did this one set him off? hmmm

      Delete
    3. I suppose its those comments about him sharing his wife with Junior officers which someone else mentioned here. I responded by saying that its trash talk. I wouldnt be surprised if he was scanning this comment section and came across it over here for the first time.
      Every day there is more and more circumstantial evidence that he reads this blog and he is much affected by it haha

      Delete
    4. @YSV

      capt's behaviour actually proves a long standing behavioural psychology pov that often the people who project outward toughness and abusive,judgemental mentality, end up being highly insecure emotionally at the core of their psyche. whatever has been written on quora about his wife is wrong,but capt should be the last person to complain now.

      Delete
    5. No need of suspicion, he IS reading this blog and the comments especially. Check this out:
      http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2019/03/questions-from-capt-ajit-vadakayil-for.html

      He posted my name along with the pseudonym I use here. Ctrl F for "Unchain the Wolves" and I am at number 6 for personal attacks.

      By the way, is he using some sort of black magick? Because his curse on Rajiv Sahni sounds so much like that.

      Delete
    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    7. I hve similar feeling since he boasts abt his supernatural abilities of reiki telepathy . mind control , his 12 stranded Dna , his fans call him a kalki avatar

      Delete
    8. @Unchain the Wolves...Thanks for the link I am at number 24.

      Delete
    9. Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho....................

      Welcome to the club. We're all enemies of the state now!

      Delete
    10. He does not have any supernatural ability. He is just reinventing the wheels as you term it. This knowledge that he so calls says its his own, its not his and not beloongs to anybody, its pure knowledge and cannot be owned by a person. He is egoistic. All his revelations are known to many vedic scholars and intellectuals but they do not brag or boast like him. ajit simply picks up the main info and weaves a wonderful story.

      Delete
    11. iam surprised that ysv_rao didn't made it into list ,considering Rao was first blogger to expose vadakayil

      Delete
  15. Sir I want to ask you something: Libya is now being taken over by someone called Khalifa Haftar. Who is that man and why do Trump, Putin, Saudi Arabia and UAE all support him? Do you know something about him?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just saw this. Sorry. Middle Eastern politics especially Iraq, Levant and North AFrica is a vipers nest. Its always better deal with the devil you know. Which is what many realized following the chaos due to the ouster of Mubarak, Gaddafi , Bouteflika and not quite Assad.
      PErhaps it seems that this Khalifa guy can provide some measure of order and security. If so why not? No one is under any illusion that he is a amalgalm of George Washington and Gandhi. He is likely a thug. Though just a bigger and better one.

      Delete
  16. Sir, please check out these posts:

    http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2017/11/comments-overflow-for-inoperative-load.html

    http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2017/11/hindu-holocaust-continues-capt-ajit.html

    Captain called you YashaSvini Vulva and pedophile RAped Orifices. Do you know about this?

    It is two years old but I just noticed today.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  17. he recently made comeback once again after short hiatus declaring victory against qoura
    I have been monitoring his blogs since 2017 I feel captain has hired some trolls to post favourable comments on his blogs , twitter , Facebook etc all his supporters on Quora sounded vaguely similar. Different words and answers of different length - but just a little similar in their style of writing, in their tone and in their claims about Vadakayil.

    http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2019/04/i-am-back-to-face-howling-mob-and-win.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think he is part of BJP IT Cell; he says some negative things about Modi and RSS to get non BJP people to come to his site and subtely make them accustomed to BJP/RSS view points. Then ask them to vote for BJP to save the watan.

      Delete
    2. There is also that possibility. But I will not be surprised if that were actually true. He is capable of anything. He is making them bhakts by inception.

      Though, to be fair, even BJP guys want little to do with him.

      Delete
    3. I agree with Unchain the Wolves ,I don't think bjp guys want anything to this with mad lunatic who has Rothschild fetish whose Hindu views are limited to only Kerala who bashes other castes on his blogs

      Delete
    4. my theory is that ,he has setup a paid troll network to promote his blogs , hence blocks comments of any new member who tries to counter his narrative ,these days his minions are active in qoura as well

      Delete
    5. Since he shares his birthday with MK gandhi, he thinks of becoming another Father of the nation. So his motto is to uproot Gandhi and have his name on the wall of fame. But seeing his attitude, he will very soon be in the wall of shame..

      Delete
    6. He believes Gandhi was an R agent. I personally see Gandhi as a confused man. I see his logic when it came to ahimsa- Hindus have been fighting Muslims and British on and off for nearly a 1000 years and all the revolutionaries such as Savarkar etc had been killed off or imprisoned so why not try a different approach. But this mode of pacifism was due to Leo Tolstoy(who himself praised Hindu bravery and physiques comparing them favorably to the short and scrawny English of the late 18th century).
      Gandhis life arc seem to match Tolstoy. While Gandhi wasnt an aristocrat like Tolstoy , he was obviously well to do as his parents could afford to send him to England.
      Tolstoy fought for Russia in the Crimean war. While Gandhi fought in the Boer war though as a stretcher bearer as his request for Indian regiment was rejected. But here is a crucial difference. Tolstoy fought for his against against the English ,the antagonist in the Crimean War. While Gandhi fought for the British, the very people who were oppressing his country, in order to conquer the Boers who did Indians no harm.
      Tolstoy was genuinely jaded by the war and the oppression of the czar and came to abhor all forms of violence by the state. While this is an extreme position atleast Tolstoy was consistent in his actions
      Gandhi was not. He preached non violence as a mode of resistance but actively recruited for the British during both world wars. Only Rajagopalachari told him to cut it out not so much due to pacifism but because he saw that war brought tended to favor the British and had a tendency to increase their powers and break promises.

      Delete
  18. To further add, any Jaati can learn the vedas, then in that case they should also leave the tag of SC/ST behind and be included in OC. But i know of many cases where that's not happening. So indirectly its a competition for the brahmins from non-brahmins born who are also not OC and get all quota! This is with reference to where Tirupathi vedic schools started teaching vedas to everybody irrespective of caste. They do not want to let go of the Quota but still give competition even in this area!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Apparently upward mobility was possible even in conservative United Province in the BRitish era more than 150 years but it would take a generation or two. In other words their offspring would ascend gradually.
      Among SL Tamils, Vellalas were competitors for Brahmin with regard to temple duties. As such there is no Brahmin bashing in SL Tamil society compared to Indian Tamils as Brahmins never held much in Eelam.

      Of course holding on to quotas is hypocritical and lacking in honor but most people who have sense of nobility would do the same.

      Delete
    2. ..who have NO sense of nobility

      Delete
    3. "Among SL Tamils, Vellalas were competitors for Brahmin with regard to temple duties. As such there is no Brahmin bashing in SL Tamil society " --- So, Did the vellalars chant mantras and perform priestly rituals in the temples of SL tamil society ? Could they be called as 'non-brahmin priests' in that sense ?

      Delete
    4. In southern India,each jati had its own occupation corresponding to varnas. Brahmins originally were restricted to performing Vedic ceremonies only. But folk religion had its own ceremonies involving ancestor worship ,sometimes with some gruesome rituals which one would consider black magic today such as the upper caste Velama rituals called Ranumu Kadupu /Vetala Pooja
      "Velamas were not happy winning the war and they performed Pooja of demons called Paisachika Pooja also called Ranamu kudupu. At midnight they went to war field and chanting all mantras of Bhetala, Bhairava, Shakini and Dhaakini and invited all those kshudra ( evil spirits) shaktis by mixing food and blood in the skulls of their enemies."

      So the Brahmins who patronized yagnas were unlikely to get involved with this haha. But you also had Brahmins who crossed over to the other side and did these types of Poojas. And even participated in animal sacrifices. Hence Brahmins came to monopolize all aspects of ritual worship, whether Vedic,Shaivite, Shakti, Vetala etc
      But SL retains and parts of TN and AP retain ancient Dravidian customs where priests are recruited from their own community rather than Brahmins.
      Tirupati had a program where it trained 100s of Dalit and low caste priests to be proficient inVedic rituals. A noble task but a better way would be encourage Brahmins to stick to their lane- i.e Vedic ceremonies and let other communities who are not interested in Brahminical rites and culture perform their own ceremonies. This way everyone is happy as Brahmins dont lose power and monopoly and Dalits and others have more autonomy and self respect.


      Delete
    5. "In southern India,each jati had its own occupation corresponding to varnas " --- Was the varna system ever on strong footing
      in South india(i am very doubtful of this) ? I thought there were only Brahmins and Shudras(Shudra being referred to those who don't practice veduc rituals ) in south india.


      " But you also had Brahmins who crossed over to the other side and did these types of Poojas. And even participated in animal sacrifices " --- Yes, Kashmiri pandits and Mithila brahmins come to mind who engaged in animal sacrifices and ate meat.
      Btw, i have a question - Are all kashmiri pundits 'brahmins' ? Is it possible that some of them might be non-brahmin priests of shaivism ?

      Delete
    6. "This is with reference to where Tirupathi vedic schools started teaching vedas to everybody irrespective of caste. They do not want to let go of the Quota but still give competition even in this area!" --- Well, those guys say that quotas are like representation and constitutional protection and they won't let go off it until 'discrimination' ends in society and 'they stop getting honor killed by upper castes'. (Even though,imo, there is no evidence that General-SC honor killing is more comapred to OBC-SC or Gen-OBC or intra-category).

      Delete
    7. in South india(i am very doubtful of this) ? I thought there were only Brahmins and Shudras(Shudra being referred to those who don't practice veduc rituals ) in south india. "

      This is what I am talking about. Shudra communities have their own priests for their own rituals. Its much later that
      a)Brahminical Vedic religion became predominant (esp after Shankaraacharya). Basically Shankaracharya was quite successful in moulding Vedic, Puranic, Agamic and other customs into what is Hinduism today. He was revived the template set by the Guptas but got bad PR due to the lunatic Shaivite Mihirakula. Shashanka of Bengal ,another fanatical Shaivite didnt help matters by burning down the Bodhi tree.
      b) Brahmins slowly took over the priestly duties of other traditions as well

      "Btw, i have a question - Are all kashmiri pundits 'brahmins' ? Is it possible that some of them might be non-brahmin priests of shaivism ?"
      The exclusive association of Brahmins with purely Vedic yagnas ended with Shankaracharya, Madhava ,Ramanuja and others . Now Brahmins conducted pujas for all manner of dieties. Kashmiri Pandits were much affected by Shankaracharya. Even now inKedarnath , only Malayalam speaking Namboodiri priests are considered fit to serve. There is also a temple in Srinagar dedicated to Shankaracharya.
      Namboothiris generally are shrautas not Shaivas.And Vedic ritualists to the core. Even now TN has more Vedic pathashaalas than anywhere in the country. At the same the priest of Ayyapa temple is also a Namboothiri. I ask why a Namboothiri is associated with Ayyappa. Why not an Ezhava? Apparently in the past even Arabs were priests of Ayyappa as legend has it Arabs ,pre and post Islamic, were followers of Ayyappa.
      Interestingly the Pasupatinath temple of Kathmandu has only Kannada priests. This is due to the Malla dynasty of Nepal either being of Kannadiga origin or converting to the Lingayath faith associated with Karnataka.

      Delete
    8. A lot of Shaivism was reintroduced into the Tamil country by Kashmiris after the rule of Kalabhra who persecuted Vedic and Agamic sects and nearly extinguished them. It was during this the commentary on Natyasastra by Kashmiri Abhinavagupta(though probably of Ujjain origin) was also imported and was the basis for Bharatanatyam and other arts.

      Delete

    9. "This is with reference to where Tirupathi vedic schools started teaching vedas to everybody irrespective of caste. They do not want to let go of the Quota but still give competition even in this area!" --- Well, those guys say that quotas are like representation and constitutional protection and they won't let go off it until 'discrimination' ends in society and 'they stop getting honor killed by upper castes'. (Even though,imo, there is no evidence that General-SC honor killing is more comapred to OBC-SC or Gen-OBC or intra-category)."

      Quotas in religious practices is absurd. Government should get out the business of managing temples. BJP for all its huffing and puffing didnt do anything in this regard. I dont think it is so much secular paranoia and Hindutva impotence/incompetence that fosters this inertia but that there is so much potential for looting and stealing temple treasures that no party secular or Hindu wants to give up control of temples. Its all about the money IMO

      In southern India, honor killings occur usually in southern TN where caste feeling especially amonst the martial castes such as Maravar is the strongest.
      This doesnt mean that similar feelings dont exist in AP, I would say AP is even worse because atleast in TN inter caste eloping particularly Dalit boy/OBC girl is attempted, in AP it is simply out of the question.But then again the proportion of Dalits in AP is very low. Telangana tends to be more egalitarian in these matters but not a lot.
      AP/Telangana are strange states in that no community is a majority. THe biggest community is Kapus and they are 18-27% of of the population depending on how many subcastes are included.

      Delete
    10. "In AP it is simply out of the question.But then again the proportion of Dalits in AP is very low" --- I just the checked the NFHS-4 and as per it, proportion of SCs in Andhra Pradesh is around ~19% which is higher than the national average of 16.6%.( Of course, sample size of NFHS is smaller than the census).

      Delete
    11. All of these keep fluctuating depending on which survey you see. Sometimes Mala and Madigas who are the most famous Dalit castes claim OBC or SC status as they see fit.

      Delete
    12. capitalist dominated society is anathema to velamas and bongs as they cant tolerate baniya influence and join communism

      Delete
    13. I dont know what is the basis of Bengali affinity for communism . The best explanation seems that of Koenraad Elst- social nationalist revolutionary fervor was diverted towards Marxist communism by the British who correctly wagered that it would be harmless as Marxism wasnt nationalistic at the time and they would contend themselves with social reform. And hence Marxism has been the defacto ideology in Bengal every since.
      Interestingly the parallels between Kerala and Bengal are considerable- both were feudal repressive societies though Bengal was a tad kinder to lower castes than Kerala. And both were rather restrictive of women though Kerala did not practice Sati to the extant of Bengal. And neither really had a proper Vaishya caste of their own. In both states, it was monopolized by Muslims Almost overnight both became progressive states where women and lower castes enjoy more safety ,freedom ,jobs and education than any other state.

      Chandrabhans Prasad, the famous Dalit intellectual pointed out the CPI was virtually a Brahmin aagraham with names like Namboothiripad,Sharma etc. Prasad is an arch capitalist as he sees it levelling the playing field. WHile CPI seeks to replace one type of feudalism with perhaps more benign one though with dvijas at the top of the food chain.

      Delete
    14. "CPI was virtually a Brahmin aagraham" sadly true even in early days most of social engineering changes was always spearheaded by brahamins like beef eating Raj ram mohan roy , tagores ,Namboothiripads etc using dalits as foot soldiers power structure remained the same .due to this many dalit adhivasi converted to islam or xinity very easily out of spite

      Delete
  19. " So indirectly its a competition for the brahmins from non-brahmins born who are also not OC and get all quota!" --- Well, 'brahmins' are on the path of 'extinction' . All you got to do is to look at the TFR(total fertility rates) of different groups. IMO, all this chaos comes from the british created definition of "Hinduism".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually the "secular" sections of all traditionalist societies such as Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists have collapsing birth rates. The traditional minded still have relatively large families. An exception to this is Muslims, both secular and traditional have collapsed. Iranian birth rate went down from 6 children per woman under the Shah to ironically less than 1 under the Ayotallahs.
      Same for Saudis and other GCC. Only Pakistanis are breeding are rats I think. Thats because they are ignorant of their irrelevance and uselessness. Once they come to that realization, they will also choose extinction.

      Delete
    2. Ysv

      Apparently the birth rates are falling wherever the population is getting strong share of education ,isn't it ? Like iran ,Saudi etc,even with traditionalist Muslim population base ,are showing rapid fall in birth rate . But I may be making a mistake in this correlation,u would know more .

      Delete
    3. Education and urbanization is a big part of it but also a realization that a culture is inferior and hence the adherents of the inferior culture simply die out which is what happened when Native Americans and Aborigines encountered the more sophisticated Europeans.

      There is a flip side to this as well. When cultures in Europe today have into nihilism and materialism ,they too slip into stagnant birth rates.
      And then there is social pressure which is mandated by a semi authoritarian governments which happened in South India , especially TN. Jayalalithas government would actually forcibly sterilize women ala Sanjay Gandhi doing it to men in the 1970s.

      Delete
    4. how many people agree that Brahman and Jain males don't have enough libido and their unsatisfied women fall prey to lascivious Muslim males most of the bong banias who wasted money on whores and then lost to marwaris in kolkata

      Delete
    5. Your Reddy zamindars when had sex with Telugu low caste women,it was not any Hinduism of manusmriti but their animal tribalism ,all the dalit radical never tell that in 1911 if you were a dalit you could abduct wife of fellow dalit and retain her for a payment .

      Delete
    6. "all the dalit radical never tell that in 1911 if you were a dalit you could abduct wife of fellow dalit and retain her for a payment" -- i have geard of older books written by colonialists talking something similar about kerala i.e some of the SC jaatis used to abduct Nair and Nambuduri women. Modern day communist historiography has twisted this and projected the other groups as victims.

      Delete
    7. " Your Reddy zamindars when had sex with Telugu low caste women,it was not any Hinduism of manusmriti " --- @cool iris, most south indians had been violating codes of "Manu" by doing cousin marriages for centuries and possibly millenia.

      Delete
    8. "how many people agree that Brahman and Jain males don't have enough libido and their unsatisfied women" --- Not all brahmin groups were traditionally vegetarian. Kashmiri pandits and Maithili brahmins were hardcore shaktas and profuse meat eaters.

      Delete

    9. "how many people agree that Brahman and Jain males don't have enough libido and their unsatisfied women fall prey to lascivious Muslim males most of the bong banias who wasted money on whores and then lost to marwaris in kolkata "

      In the past , women were kept under strict lock and key so that their lust would not be able to wander even if the husband was rather lacking in the potency department. Muslim invaders didnt come as seducers but as invaders. Whether being abducted and raped was not entirely willing on the victim side is a complex phenomenon that many people have trouble acknowledging as it examines the primitive instincts of the female that most people dont wish to face. We are more than happy to castigate male base instincts for war and rapine as we should but turn our heads away when faced with the possibility that the female is animalistic.

      Cool iris seems to be a Dalit activist of some sort I reckon. There is no need for anger here on this forum. I am for radical egalitarianism not espoused by BJP, Congress , certainly not regional parties like TDP which are casteist bastions.

      Delete
    10. --- @cool iris, most south indians had been violating codes of "Manu" by doing cousin marriages for centuries and possibly millenia."

      Baudhayana developed a law code specially for south Indians so that despite their customs as long as they performed sacrifices they could be considered Arya.

      Delete
    11. "Your Reddy zamindars when had sex with Telugu low caste women,it was not any Hinduism of manusmriti but their animal tribalism ,all the dalit radical never tell that in 1911 if you were a dalit you could abduct wife of fellow dalit and retain her for a payment "

      I am not Reddy LOL. The feudalism in Telangana was barbaric. The Velama Doras(lords) would not even let the peasant women breastfeed their children and would go as far as to squeeze their breasts to relieve the milk quickly so they could get back to work. The communist rebellion was a revolt against these types of excesses and was targetted against the Hindu landed elite but lot of high castes such as Kammas and Reddys joined the rebellion on an ideological basis and went to war against their own and ultimately the Nizam who was the ultimate authority over these doras.
      The literacy rate and awareness of these peasants was often so low that they had no idea that their real ruler was some Muslim dude in some grand city. All they saw was their Reddy and Velama taskmaster and drove their anger against him. And then eventually the Nizams forces which they defeated and scattered

      Now a story about peasants disposing of a tyrannical Muslim king should make the Hindutvadi proud generally but there are too many caveats that impeded the Hindutva narrative. Firstly that it was not religiously based but on ideology and basic self respect. Hindutva parties being an upper caste coalition do not want the lower castes to get too many "bad ideas" .Also it underscores the fact that too often upper castes were too happy to do the dirty work of the Muslim overlords. Without Reddy andVelama manpower and support, the state of Hyderabad could never have consolidated its power.
      That even goes for the Maratha support for Adil Shahis which is still being swept under the rug by Maratha chauvinists.

      Delete
    12. @YSV, cool iris doesn't seem to be a dalit activist to me(he seems quite the opposite).

      Besides, when using the term 'dalit', i believe a lot of people(i have noticed this in the foreigners) think it refers to some homogenous, uniform community but it isn't true as it's simply a collection of heterogenous, endogamous groups of people spread across india. Correct me if i m wrong but the Malas and Madigas don't marry each other, right ? One thing that i have seen in social media is increased Jaati consciousness. Where do you see dalit activism going in the future ? My understanding is that the SC reservation has mostly benefitted some jaatis like Mahars, Jatavs, Paswans(in Bihar). Do you think after the dalit and OBC leaders have taken power away from UC folks(UC communities have lower birth rate and a lot of them might migrate to a foreign country in the near future), there might be a tussle for power between them ?

      Delete
    13. women are hardwired from caveman days to fornicate with thugs more often Muslim male than jains many white woman go on sex tour to kenya jamica etc to get fkd by the Negroes

      Delete
    14. its not the problem from jain and brahmin male its their religious code conduct which includes abstain-ens from meat ,garlic , onion women . they are supposed to follow these strict rules for vedic life . women were not encouraged to participate in religious matter , then there are people like Captain commented in his blog saying "NO WOMAN CAN GET MOKSHA-- FIRST SHE HAS TO BE BORN AS A MAN IN INDIA"

      Delete
    15. its because these lunatics its given rise to feminism to a point where Disney princess syndrome has infested every movement."Women can do no wrong" is not just a left of center mantra, it is the way many women are raised.

      Delete
    16. ("That even goes for the Maratha support for Adil Shahis which is still being swept under the rug by Maratha chauvinists") there is also

      “Myth of Sikhs Saving Hinduism” "Punjab was taken by Abdali . Now, it is Hindu Marathas who captured Punjab from Muslims, not Sikhs who were negligible entity .

      Sikhs became powerful only after death of Abdali in 1772, outside Pakistani region, Muslim rule vanished by that time "Sikhs never did anything against Akbar ...

      Mighty Sikh empire from Satluj to Peshawar was brought down by British in 4 years. Sikhs without any rebellion serve British for next 100 years.

      Basis of partition was demography .The map shows sikh % in every district of undivided Punjab Sikhs did not have numbers even in Amritsar leave Punjab




      Delete
    17. Most sportsperson in physical sports are Hindu Jats not Sikhs.Modern day Sikhs retrospectively hate rajput caste but sikhs imitated Rajputs and adopted 'Singh' surname from us.We should claim copyright.LOl..

      Delete
    18. sorry for the long rant let me clarify iam not against any culture or ideology iam merely stating facts, apology if any one got offended

      Delete
    19. A lot of Hindutvas and even seculars would sing praises of Sikhs as saviors of Hindus. Such statements left me scratching my head as Sikhs at the beginning of their history could barely protect themselves, never mind saving others. They started becoming powerful after Marathas did the hard work of finishing off the Mughals and filled in the power vaccum.

      I think it is mostly Punjabi, Kashmiri and Sindhi Hindus who are grateful to them from saving them from Pathan excesses . Until the 1990s it was a trend in Hindu families of these communities to raise one of their sons as a Sikh. SOuth Indians never need any Sikh to save them from anything.

      Sikhs now are for all practical purpose a British identity as far as I am concerned. Same with Gurkhas.

      Delete
    20. @tim drake
      "Do you think after the dalit and OBC leaders have taken power away from UC folks(UC communities have lower birth rate and a lot of them might migrate to a foreign country in the near future), there might be a tussle for power between them ? "
      Nothing will occur in linear fashion especially in a fractitious and yes dynamic social landscape like this. Yes there is a caste system which is static but underlying it is a social dynamism where castes fall up and down and move around. Dalits may move into SC or even BC category and upper castes move to BC as well for benefits as occurred with Modis caste. Hence I see more the situation of states like AP and Telengana where there are no majorities,upper castes will form alliances with BC and Dalits and remain on top.
      I think Mayawati was a fluke and not likely to reoccur.

      The best solution for Dalits is not this crony capitalist system which is the Indian economy where big businessmen like Ambani have a pipeline to the government squeezing out the upstarts. In my opinion breaking up companies like Wipro and Reliance and easing import restrictions and red tape in states like UP , Rajasthan etc where discrimination is particularly bad will help Dalits more than any reservation or statues to Ambedkar.

      Delete
    21. "Baudhayana developed a law code specially for south Indians so that despite their customs as long as they performed sacrifices they could be considered Arya" ---- Correct me if am wrong but a lot of South indian jaatis(even some dominant landed ones) were outside the Arya fold and they had their own rules (similar to how jaat/biradari panchayats handled intra-jaati related dispute in the north).

      Delete
    22. "Dalits may move into SC or even BC category and upper castes move to BC as well for benefits as occurred with Modis caste" --- As far as i know , there is only SC group which wants to move out of SC status to BC status and that is Devendra Kulla Vellalar(Pallar) community in Tamil Nadu. With the present reservation system, it's not wise to move out of SC to OBC status as the cut-off marks for OBC cat in various examinations are higher with and additional criteria of creamy layer not present in . As for Modi's jaati, afaik, he is a Teli and Teli are OBCs in nearly every state.


      "In my opinion breaking up companies like Wipro and Reliance and easing import restrictions and red tape in states like UP , Rajasthan etc where discrimination is particularly bad will help Dalits more than any reservation or statues to Ambedkar." --- So, if i understand this correctly, a decentralized economy or system(kind of like the past) but the issue is heterogenity among SC or OBC castes. What stopping one or two dominant castes among SC grabbing most of the benefits and then ruling like feudal lords in their areas ?

      Delete
    23. Correct me if am wrong but a lot of South indian jaatis(even some dominant landed ones) were outside the Arya fold and they had their own rules (similar to how jaat/biradari panchayats handled intra-jaati related dispute in the north).

      Yes but there are caveats to this claim. As I said Baudhayana tinkered with the laws in a way such that south Indians could be considered Arya as along as they performed sacrifices and honored Brahmins and cows even as they kept unarya customs. Let us give an example from Tulu culture. Tulu culture is a combination of ancient Dravidian ancestor worship (Mahabali), Vedic culture and Jainism. So the offering to gods represents this fusion where the worshipper offers a meat and vegetarian dish.

      Also just because south Indians got aryanized didnt mean it stuck. Just as you have the Dravidian movement , in the past you had anti Vedic movements such as Lingayats. In fact Tamils are probably less Arya than they were 200 years ago. When Reverend Caldwell declared Nadars to be non Aryan, they rioted. Then as now TN has the highest number of Vedic pathashalas in the country. And probably has maintained that position for last 1000 years when UP was overrun by Muslims. A 1000 years before that, the honor would have been Kashmirs from where post Kalabhras Tamils imported Shaivism and Vedic learning.

      Delete
    24. @YSV

      Tamils in the pre Kalabhra Sangam era also had Vedic learning. There references to Brahmins and Vedic sacrifices in the Sangam literature. The difference is that in the post Sangam era Buddhism and Jainism had been completely wiped out by the Shaivites and Vaishnavites.

      Delete
    25. in light of recent political developments taking place in south India i fell its time south Indian states secede from rest of India form its separate identity

      the GDP of the south 4 states makes little more than two times of the rest of India(25 states). with so much effort and wealth earned for the the nation in return you don't get respected for what you are and seen down with contempt! and forced to learn Hindi.




      NonHindi states produce tax & revenue. Hindi states produce babies & hence immigrants and hence the common problem that natives of Maharashtra, Karnataka, Bangla, Gujarat, Punjab, Tamil Nadu talk about. NonHindi states subsidize to Hindi states live & produce babies + riots.


      there are other benefits like having not having to deal border insurgency and terrorism frm rouge states like Pakistan Bangladesh etc


      Delete
    26. modi 2.o is a economic disaster full of empty promises i can go on, this might b fringe idea but a necessary one , there are many hurdles internally and externally

      if succeeded south India federation has good future compare to north bimaru states

      it will be a blessing in disguise for the north as it might force politicians of north to develop these region rather than robbing tax money from south states for personal greed

      i love India like any other citizen but we need to be practical if we think of the future i can add many other reasons but i will be beyond the scope of this blog

      Delete
    27. Let us not get impulsive.

      1. South India will have the very same problems as the Republic of India. Guess what, as of today, if Hindi is excluded and only native languages and mother languages of north and central India are counted, Telugus will form the biggest demographic group in India followed closely by Bengalis and Marathis. The cow belt in many ways serves as a punching bag for the rest of us, and in a way I feel bad for them. But in South India, with four major and several minor identities, guess what will happen? Yes, we will be at each other's throats and become like South Sudan. See the travel advisory of any nation, the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc., for South Sudan?

      2. In the South India you propose, Telugus will form the bulk of the military followed by Kodavas and Malayalee Christians. I am not too sure about Kannadigas and Tamils. It will not end well for everyone.

      3. Yes, Hindians are a problem due to their humongous numbers and backward states, but you know what? I kinda see it as our responsibility to do something to help bring them up.

      4. If you think Pakistan and Bangladesh are the only states that produce terrorists, you are dead wrong. With the global reach of ISIS, they can rise anywhere anytime.

      5. Kerala does not produce anything except Gulf money. It is the Greece of India.

      6. Karnataka voted for BJP this year. It did not occur to them that they were in the south.

      There are better ways, like either forming a union following the federalism of Australia and the USA or maybe *IFF* there is no other choice, split into constituent states instead of forming republics out of two or more states with different characteristics.

      I understand your anxiety but jumping the gun will not help anybody. Let us acknowledge our problems like you have done and let us work towards the best solutions for them.

      Delete
    28. I am not sanguine on the rosy future of independent South India for reason SOTS elaborated but Ill add more.

      All south Indian states apart from Andhra/Telangana who are quite similar have very strong regional and ethnic identities. In the past there was a south Indian state called Vijayanagar which encapsulated the idea of south Indian culture and military strength . So much so that the ruling dynasty who were proud of origin -Karnataka became a byword for the south in general. Carnatic music, Carnatic wars etc did not emanate or take place in Karnataka but since these regions were once feudatories of Karnataka, Karnataka became a pan south Indian identities with Telugus initially as the hired muscle later active participants and representatives of the empire. This doesnt mean everything was nice and rosy under the Vijayanagar empire in the Hindu south. Vijaynagar spent as much resources quelling rebellions in TN as they did fighting Muslims and Oriyas to the North.
      To this day, there is a lingering resentment among many Tamils about Telugu Nayaka rule which was often discriminatory towards Tamils in favor of Telugu as well as actively oppressive.
      Then you have Kaveri, Tamils and Kannadigas fought more than a 100 years as Cholas and Chalukyas. There is no reason they wouldnt go to war once they are independent nations. And TN since its no longer constrained by Delhi may well decide to administer on Sinhalas the same treatment the latter meted out to SL Tamils. THe LTTE era would be a walk in the park if mainland Tamils decide to take that route.
      Kerala makes me laugh. Once its independent, it may soon become a satellite state of probably UAE or Oman.
      Karnataka have a complex about their identity but may well become invigorated on the Kaveri issue.
      Andhra and Telengana have a bad habit of exporting Naxalites to North India. The membership roster of Naxalites in Bihar, and Chhatisgarh reads like a Vijayawada phonebook. If this continues under independent Andhra /Telegana this may invite active military intervention from North India.
      Speaking of North India, I think North India will more likeley to remain unified than south India most of North India lacks any regional ethnic identity.
      The vast swathe of the Indo Gangetic plain from Haryana,Rajasthan, UP,MP,Bihar is culturally quite similar. Orissa Im told is the most pro Hindi state among non Hindi and may cast its lot with the Hindi belt. Though Bengal and Orissa may go to war on who invented the rasgulla LOL
      Unless Bengal develops its strong militia its in danger of being swallowed by Bangladesh or the Hindi states. In the former case its Hindu identity will be extinguished and in the latter its culture will be destroyed though Hindus will prevail. Between devil and the deep sea for independent Bengal. But they have disproven the marital race theory by propping up Bose et al. They may do it again.

      Delete
    29. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    30. "The vast swathe of the Indo Gangetic plain from Haryana,Rajasthan,UP,MP,Bihar is culturally quite similar" --- I don't think they are. Haryana and Rajasthan, imo, seem culturally a bit divergent compared to eastern UP and Bihar. 

      "Andhra and Telengana have a bad habit of exporting Naxalites to North India" --- What is the reason behind this ? 

      Delete
    31. That resentment among Tamils for Telugu Nayakkars actually ended after the latter became super Tamils. It is some handful of morons like Seeman who are trying too hard to foment hate from a wound that has long healed.

      With that said, certainly South Indian states will be much richer than they are under the Republic of India but they will have more wars.

      Karnataka will be the richest state-nation and witness the greatest inequality. And yes, they will fight with Tamils over Cauvery.

      Kerala will become a ground for recruitment by the UAE and Saudi Arabia for the latter's wars in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Sudan.

      1. But sir I have a query. I realize the UAE and Saudi Arabia are expansionist with their support to Sudan's military junta and Libya's Khalifa Haftar. Iran and their proxies like Yemeni Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Harakat al-Sabireen and other militias in Iraq, I do not need to mention, you know better. Does Oman carry similar imperial/expansionist ambitions?

      /Andhra and Telengana have a bad habit of exporting Naxalites to North India.../

      In other words, like Hezbollah transports militants across Iraq and Syria.
      LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
      But I do not think North India would ever go to war with the Telugu nation because the latter will no doubt have one of the strongest armies in the region. When North Indians do nothing about Pakistan and Bangladesh sending JihadiPigs from across the borders, why would they want to go to war with Telugus?

      Bengal and North East India will go to hell without North India's support. Bangladeshi JihadiPigs will swallow the entire region and create a supermassive black hole on earth, Pakistan's pet project of "Greater Islamic Bangladesh" that is.

      As for Tamilnadu, you got most of it right. Tamils will be fighting wars along all its borders and become like Apartheid South Africa where SADF fought against Angola, Mozambique, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Lesotho at the same time.

      We will all be richer except North India but the region will witness instability.

      2. Another doubt: Where will Gujarat go in the wake of such an event? What about Goa? Will Maharashtra or Karnataka swallow Goa? And will Maharashtra be alone or stick to North India?

      Thanks.

      Delete
    32. As for a war on Sri Lanka, that will definitely be on the cards for us. But it will not stop with the Sinhalese people because Sri Lankan Tamils carry contempt for Indian Tamils and in many cases have kidnapped Indian fishermen who fish anywhere near Katchatheevu. Karnataka, Cauvery water issue. Kerala, Mullaiperiyar water issue. Now Andhra, Palar water issue. Tamilnadu will be in the same position as Apartheid era South Africa fighting wars across its land and maritime borders in case India fragments.

      Kerala has no hope as a separate nation except becoming a recruiting ground for Emiratis'/Saudis' expansionist wars. That is why Dubai Comrade aka Arun Nambiar (who is now in Amsterdam!!) proposed Dravida Nadu and merge Kerala with Tamil Nadu.
      LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Not happening!

      3. But why do Andhra/Telangana produce so many Naxalites? I mean, these are guys who shine in IIT JEE and other entrance exams and are over-represented in India's IT sector among others. What drives some of them towards militancy?

      I do not know too much about Orissa/Odisha except they hate Bengalis.

      Thanks.

      Delete
    33. re Telugu Naxals

      It is due to the following reasons from what I see

      1. Genuine idealism-JNU, JNTU and even Osmania to some extant preach revolution against unjust Indian society and many young men are attracted to it.

      2. AP/Telangana government wishes to export a headache- Just as a lot of ISIS are from Morrocco and Tunisia but these governments themselves are quite secular and dont want these individuals ,similarly the TDP/Congress or whoever encourages them to move to other states and so it is the problem of Bihar/Chhatisgarh etc.

      3. Telugu men for whatever reason dont go for the army and so their martially inclined population sees a chance for adventure and conflict and is attracted to it.

      Delete
    34. Goa will be happy to be independent. Among the Christians and even Hindus there is resentment over the invasion. And their quality of life was better under the Portuguese apparently. If not it would prefer Karnataka as Kannadas dont practice linguistic imperialism ala Marathis but you see many different ethnic groups such as Konkani,Kodava,Tulus etc who are part of the fabric. Something about Marathis, they cant tolerate diversity and they rioted against Goan Konkanis when the latter didnt want to be considered Marathis. This was about 40 years ago.

      Delete
    35. Re TN wars. Telugus are the only people in South India to get along with Tamils and have no issue with Kannadas or Keralites and neither these have any animus against Telugus. So hopefully in that scenario they can act as a mediator to quell conflicts.

      Delete
    36. I am not a fan of the Indian army and think its a highly overrated entity. I dont doubt the courage of its forces. But its logistics, operational ability and command structure is just inept. The Telugu Naxalites run circles around them in the tribal regions. Of course fighting pitched conventional battles is another matter and different training is required.
      LTTE due to its ego of its founder abandoned guerilla warfare and started attacked Sri Lankan forces in a conventional manner which was a mistake in the long run as we can see.

      Delete
    37. The cultural differences between Eastern Bihar and Rajasthan are more due to geography than ethnicity. Karnataka and TN share border but they are completely different cultures.

      Hindi speaking states atleast have a common language and have been historically united under the Mauryas ,Guptas and Harshvardhana as well as Pratiharas. This only happened with Vijayanagar with south India.

      Delete
    38. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    39. the better idea would be that south Indian states should declare themselves as autonuous regions instead uniting under one flag ,few issues like kaveri has to sorted out . dividing India on the basis of language in making different states was a grave mistake

      Delete
    40. States should have been created based on population size and representation which would have sought to assimilate people who spoke different languages. Population in states like UP and Bihar has swelled which has led to undue share of loksabha seats being granted to these poor and illiterate states US has created many states but they are not based on spoken languages but based on geography and population size. Canada has created provinces based on languages and is already facing demands for secession. For example, Quebec sovereignty demand, is based on the presence of majority French speaking population. Some terrorist groups are supporting a violent movement for sovereignty. Russia wants to take over many territories in Ukraine based on the presence of a huge Russian speaking majority. Hitler also sought to protect German speakers in Rhineland and Sudetanland, before taking over these territories by force.

      Delete
    41. ("/Andhra and Telengana have a bad habit of exporting Naxalites to North India.../")

      this is/was historically pan Indian problem not just south Indian states
      http://kalchiron.blogspot.com/search/label/Treason%20series .

      Delete
    42. 1. I realize the UAE and Saudi Arabia are expansionist with their support to Sudan's military junta and Libya's Khalifa Haftar so an independent Kerala will supply soldiers for their wars in the Middle East. Iran and their proxies like Yemeni Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Harakat al-Sabireen and plenty of militias in Iraq (Iraq is Iran's backyard), I do not need to mention, you know better. Turkey is also involved in Syria and Libya.

      Does Oman carry similar imperial/expansionist ambitions as UAE, Saudi Arabia and Iran?

      2. Where will Gujarat go in the wake of India going the way of the USSR? Will they stick with North India or Maharashtra or go alone?

      Delete
    43. Ityei_rt:

      1. Hitler was aggressive and megalomaniac. He wanted to show his power off so he invaded neighboring countries. Putin is doing the same today. He is trying to destroy every country in his backyard.

      2. USA has a uniform White population that speaks mostly English. Hispanics and Blacks are significant minorities and they have not created trouble. Quebec asking for secession from Canada is similar to Tamils asking for secession from India. Just gossip and posturing.

      3. India's problem is that New Delhi has too much power and is mismanaging resources. It has nothing to do with language. Religion is a bigger and more inflammable powder keg.

      By autonomous regions, you mean like Macau and Hong Kong are to China? Or better, like Switzerland's cantons? I am for both.

      Distributing states on the basis of language was not a mistake, New Delhi's excessive power is.

      Delete
    44. /I am not a fan of the Indian army and think its a highly overrated entity. I don't doubt the courage of its forces. But its logistics, operational ability and command structure is just inept./

      Sadly the Indian Army is left in the lurch because New Delhi does not do enough to equip and train the army adequately.

      The gargantuan bureaucracy is also making matters considerably harder for the Army. India is also not allowing private players to manufacture weapons. South Africa during Apartheid had their own weapons manufacturing unit named Armaments Corporation of South Africa (Armscor). India direly needs an Armscor of its own.

      Serious question: Do you think it is a good idea to pay SADF veterans well and train Indian soldiers? SADF was the name of the South African Armed Forces during the Apartheid years and their record during wars was splendid. They single handedly thwarted USSR's attempts at invading Africa through Angola, Mozambique, Cuba and also ANC and SWAPO. SADF also extensively supported Somalia (till Frederik de Klerk pulled back the SADF from everywhere and it led to the fall of Siad Barre).

      Or would veteran South African Boers object to it?

      Delete
    45. ("India's problem is that New Delhi has too much power and is mismanaging resources. It has nothing to do with language. Religion is a bigger and more inflammable powder keg.")
      you just reiterated my points above plz go back and read what i said in my previous comments

      Delete
    46. ("iam not a fan of the Indian army and think its a highly overrated entity. I don't doubt the courage of its forces. But its logistics, operational ability and command structure is just inept./")
      its the best we can afford at current scenario we are the second largest arms importer in the world there is a 70yrs gap in terms military technology between India and USA

      Delete
  20. ysv what is your view about farmers loan waiver ? whatever popular scheme politicians make during election most of it is recovered frm middle class people , including Npa frm people like modi's ,mallya etc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A lot of farming is simply unprofitable because they go around farming wrong crops and many are not suited for farming. This is just a fact.
      Even in U.S, politicians make fools of themselves posing with cornstalks talking about nobility of the farmer when barely 3% of the population engages in farming. People admire farmers and are quite ignorant of the difficulties and risks associated with it. Debt slavery and other types of coerced labor should be dealt with a firm hand as well as predatory lenders. But there has to a serious societal shift for a country to progress beyond farming and agriculture which India primarily is. Europe and U.S went through many wars as well as the Englightenment which actually fostered some of those wars. We knows the horrors that Russia,Korea, Japan and China went throughh in the process of modernization.
      India due to its democracy and peasant customs had sluggish progress.
      Luddites like Vadakayil praise India for having gold reserves. I ask you isthat smarter than investing in businesses, stocks or start ups. Its due to this conservative, risk averse peasant hoarding culture that our economy is backward.

      Delete
    2. Sir, what horrors did Japan go through in order to modernize? I realize China, Korea and Russia saw horrors like famine in transitioning from farming to modernity, but Japan?

      Delete
    3. Meiji Restoration which set the motion for the modernization of Japan was preceeded by more than a century of constant warfare and its attendant horrors. Even the reformation under the Meiji didnt go smoothly as many Samurai did not take kindly to losing their privileges which was required for Japan to merge from a feudal economy.
      And of course there was the devastation of WWII where Japan had to start from scratch.

      Delete
    4. OK. I had tunnel vision and only saw the 20th century particularly after WWII. I completely forgot about the Meiji restoration.

      Now I understand. Thanks.

      Though I wonder what the Samurai from the 18th/19th century would think if they were to see the Japan of today...

      Delete
  21. Ysv

    What would be ur opinion on the Gandhi Godse fiasco going on in social media :) ? Though I find the average indian is largely nonchalant to this whole subject in offline electoral flows ,but nonetheless it has become a hot topic nowadays,with people swearing to die by either Godse or Gandhi's name (online death that is 😋😋)

    I am not being able to derive a proper perspective into this ,as either side seems dead biased,either for or ahnst gandhi/Godse ,thus no neutral pov available. The one critical essay on Gandhi I liked was written by sitaram goel , where he analysed the good and bad of Gandhiji neutrally ,keeping the bias aside . But I would love to know ur pov as well on this ,since ur analysis is equally sharp and dispassionate _/\_

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In my youth I was a bit of a troll taunting Congress and other seculars by observing Godse Jayanthi and singing his praises wherever possible and publicly expressed a desire to name my future son Nathuram Godse :) All of this does not stem from an admiration of Godse or to justify his assasination of Gandhi. When that madwoman Pragya Thakur calls Godse a deshbhakt , she is not completely incorrect in that Godse considered himself a patriot and was quite upset by how Hindu and Sikh women were treated by Muslim mobs. Koenraad Elst notes that Hindu refugee women from Pakistan did not want to hear a negative word against him and many donated their jewels so that he may able to get a good attorney or something like that. These women had suffered horrible traumas and humiliations so it is understandable for them to have an extreme reaction against someone who they held accountable for their fate-Gandhi. Similarly I understand Godses angst but it was an ill calculated emotional reaction which helped deify Gandhi in modern India and made the Hindutva movement go underground and lose its intellectual base for which it is suffering to this day.Savarkars name got sullied in the process from which he has just recovered over the last 15 years or so mostly due to the efforts of online Hindutvadis.

      Gandhis views were demoralizing to Hindus. I was ashamed when I was a teenager upon his observation that average Hindu was a coward and the average Muslim was a bully. Not knowing too much anecdotal evidence about that era in the interaction between Hindus and Muslims, let us assume that is true- it is quite plausible due to demartialization Hindus had lost their honor, integrity and courage. Look at what happens to Germans post WWII, the mighty Nazis who almost single handedly took U.S,U.K and the Soviet Union are now helpless before a third rate unarmed mob of Syrians marching into their country. This is what Churchil and Eisenhower(ironically himself of German parentage) wanted so that Germany does not make trouble again.
      The Nairs who were considered the bravest soldiers in the world by Portuguese and Dutch observers and mananged to inflict the most casulaties on the British that they suffered in any subcontinental war could do nothing when some Muslim coolies like Moplahs gang raped their women 100 years later. This happend after British banned all kalaries and forbid them from carrying weapons.
      Gandhis solution was to make Hindus even more cowardly while Savarkar wanted them to be more courageous and enroll in the army. Tilak had the same idea and implored the now downbeat Marathas to revive their martial heritage by taking up gymnastics.
      Problem was as Aakar Patel pointed out, the culture of Gandhi was a Gujarati Baniya of Jain background who thought he could negotiate and bargain his way into indepedence. WHile Gandhi was not personally cowardly(a stretcher bearer in war is not a nervous person) he came from a milieu that did not honor courage and he projected that onto all other Hindus due to his British education which saw Hindus as simply victim of constant invasions from whom the British rescued.
      All these twitter wars simply seem to obfuscate the reality which no one wants to talk about- which is that Hindus want to be seen and engage in violence and war. Gandhism is dead but it is being bandied about both Congress and BJP government because it is useful for controlling the masses as the state wants monopoly on violence. This is the same reason why Tamil Nadu banned the erecting of veerakals(hero stones) of those who died in some village combats due to either jallikattu or caste wars. A neutered, emasculated population is easy for the government to control but the masses are having enough of it. Thats a big part of Gandhi/Godse issue.

      Delete
    2. Ysv

      Thanks a lot for ur reply _/\_ and sorry for my late response.

      Negotiation and bargaining into independence has taken its toll,as we can see that we are still somewhat stuck in the colonial culture,even with an advanced constitution ,a relatively robust democracy and such things.

      ironically,its in a democratic and sovereign framework where gandhian way of agitation like civil disobedience,mass rallies etc can work to pressurise or arm twist the incumbent govt. like in 2014,the congress already lost the battle back in 2012 itself,when they failed to counter the propaganda on corruption agnst them. and the image of Modi as a viable option added up to that. But anyway what i am trying to point out is that,gandhian methods may not work agnst a dictatorial govt with a huge armed force at disposal,like the british indian govt for example. even there,we did see good success in the noncooperation and civil disobedience,but both were abruptly ended by Gandhiji himself,at the peak of their heat.

      Ysv one more question for u,if u are interested in this topic. What is ur opinion on SHrikant Talageri? I am yet to read his books or listen to his youtube videos. But I read one of his blogposts refuting another AIT blogger's claims agnst him and his OIT theory. frankly,that blogpost is poorly compiled,and full of rants and rhetorics by talageri.ofcourse I wont judge Talageri unless i read his book fully. But what is your opinion on him or on the OIT proposition in general? and what do u feel about the aryan migration theory or AMT as an alternative to AIT ?

      Delete
    3. "But anyway what i am trying to point out is that,gandhian methods may not work agnst a dictatorial govt with a huge armed force at disposal,like the british indian govt for example. even there,we did see good success in the noncooperation and civil disobedience,but both were abruptly ended by Gandhiji himself,at the peak of their heat."
      True ,even Martin Luther King realized that Gandhian method was the way to go, but Malcolm X who was like the Savarkar of blacks had other ideas. Eventually both were needed as a carrot and stick for southern whites to accept blacks as equals.
      You have to wonder why did Gandhi keep self sabotaging? Was it pacifism itself that is self destructive or Gandhian attachment to the BRitish as Koenraad Elst believes

      I like Talageri on some aspects that the religious distinction between Vedic and Puranic Hinduism is overplayed but he makes a lot of errors in his OIT where he reverses the traditional chronology of Vedic Hinduism and Puranic Hinduism which makes no sense by his own logic as Puranas are a commentary and expansion on Vedic dieties not really predecessor or successor.
      He uses the very tempting example of Mitanni to push for OIT. Yes Mitanni were probably the first and the last(so far) Indian military conquest into the Middle East. That was during a time when Indo Aryans were most mobile and skilled in equestrian warfare which Babylonians were unable to counter.
      From Hinduism POV, all these theories are irrelevant. The Vedic/Puranic/Agamic methods especially Shaiva/Shaktis can be proven in the yogic successes of the siddhas.

      Delete
    4. Sir, what is your opinion on the verdict in Andhra and Telangana? Is YS Jagan Reddy better or Chandrababu Naidu?

      What is the future of the Telugu states?

      Thanks.

      Delete
    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    6. "" Yes Mitanni were probably the first and the last(so far) Indian military conquest into the Middle East." --- Were the Mitanni Aryas really 'indians' ? I thought the conventional theory puts them as the ancestors of indo-aryans. I think you believe the other way round. YSV , what's your theory on the origin of vedic/Arya culture ? I am up to date with the ancient DNA studies but i am confused over the interpretation. In popular online population genetics blog, most folks(mostly westerners) are absolutely sure over the migration of Indo-aryans around the second millenium BCE (sintastha or Andronovo being cited as the cradle)"

      Delete
    7. Jagan Reddy is a rogue and a theif. CBN wasnt Mr clean either but atleast he had a vision , a flawed one involving wasteful government expenditure but it was grandiose and inspiring for Amaravathi. Jagan offers nothing except more thuggishness. But it has to be said about Jagan Reddy, he had no qualms about locking up Assadudin Owaisi when he was rabble rousing. Owaisi knows better than to tango with the Reddy clan who are essentially warlords.

      Delete
    8. The names of Mitanni correspond of the late Vedic era ,even Ramayanic names. Hence these were not PIE folks but a mobile group from Sindh and Gandhara region who were able to subdue Mesopotamian kingdoms for a short while.
      Migrations in the pre modern era often involved military conquest but these were generally low intensity especially when dealing with fertile areas. IVC for example saw gradual Aryanization, some of it peaceful, some not until a combination of population pressures, aggressive IAs and climate changes compelled them to move out.
      I think the best example is the Islamization of Iran which was a slow and gradual process with a lot of back and forth Arab supremacy countered with Persian political and cultural resurgence finally with a composite culture that created IRanian civilization today.

      Im a pretty staunch Hindu and yet I can live with AIT as I think it is irrelevant. Many Hindus believe OIT is now an integral part of their faith which I find weird to be honest.

      Delete
    9. Regarding the outlook of Telangana and AP, it is generally positive. Despite the gangster tendencies of the leaders they tend to take their responsibilities in governing seriously. A great achievement of KCR is no powercuts even during summer. And Hyderabad airport has maintained its high standards for the 3rd best airport inthe world in the 5m to 15 million category, there are others but other states have managed the same such as reduction in infant mortality and pension schemes or they are not easily quantifiable.
      The two I singled out are tangible, you cant fool people into believing the power is on lol. And Hyderabad airport customer service and efficiency I have witnessed myself.

      Lot of development projects and Vizag and Amaravati . Of course there is a feeling of hope and optimism

      On the negative side, the states are hopelessly divide on basis of caste. The Telugu film industry continues to produce masala trash rather than anything meaningful. Political dynasties continue in AP, Telangana.
      The autorickshaw drivers are theiving and obnoxious as usual. People continue to see me as a walking ATM(I tend to stick out like a sore thumb and when I start talking its confirmed that I have been around for a long time) and hence they tend to rip me off. It can be quite frustrating. Pollution in Hyderabad is nothing compared to Mumbai or Delhi mostly because its a plateau but its still pretty bad. Hyderabad weather has gotten hotter though winters have gotten colder. On the outskirts of the city far from the building, no need for ac or fan at night, the cool Deccan winds will lull you to sleep.

      Delete
    10. Telugu fanboys can sure be goofy and childish
      one of them wrote on some site I viewed somedays ago "twinkle twinkle little star,kcr superstar" lol, this was a grown adult not a toddler if you can believe it.

      Delete
  22. Sir,

    I realize that I an going off topic here so I apologize in advance.

    Is it possible to sever all ties with one's Kula Devata? I want to know. Sorry if this sounds crude, you can delete this post if it is bad.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who is your Kula Devta and why do you wish to severe ties with it? Kula Devata is part of your heritage and hence part of your identity. Generally women can sever ties as get married into other families and honor their kula devata.Males tend to be stuck with them unless you renounce and become sanyaas or muni

      Delete
    2. Sorry for delaying.

      Due to too much conflicts, my parents and I parted ways permanently so I want to cut all ties with their Kula Devata, who happens to be Ayyanar in a village near Kumbakonam town.

      Is it mandatory for me to become a Sanyasin or a Muni in order to sever all ties? Or is it possible through some kind of ritual?

      Delete
  23. News from your home state YSV, what do you think ?

    https://m.timesofindia.com/india/andhra-reserves-75-private-jobs-for-locals/articleshow/70338174.cms

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Disaster. At this rate AP will turn into Bihar in a few years. Heck Bihar has a positive trajectory, it may overtake AP if Reddy insists on these harebrained schemes.

      Delete
    2. Anyway my view is this is probably(and hopefully) kabuki theatre. Reddy wants to be seen as a populist and hence these measures but probably knows he will be challenged on a legal, nationalist and market basis. He will then relent and say that he did his best and he would be viewed still more favorably.

      Delete
    3. "probably knows he will be challenged on a legal, nationalist and market basis. He will then relent and say that he did his best and he would be viewed still more favorably." ----> Yes, he doesn't seem like a stupid guy to me. May be he is playing 3D chess here. He knows that the move will be eventually struck down or at least % of reservation will decrease(more like 50%).
      But the issue is that it might start a dangerous trend especially with regards to reservation in private sector. Who knows , caste based reservations in private sector might be nearby (which will be further increase the divide in an already divided country) .

      Delete
    4. Consider this for example.
      https://swarajyamag.com/insta/bill-hiking-obc-reservation-to-27-per-cent-cleared-by-madhya-pradesh-assembly-total-reservation-goes-up-to-73-per-cent

      Quoting from the above --- "
      During the assembly debate surrounding the amendment bill, some lawmakers even demanded that the quota be increased to 37 per cent, with others favouring its extension into the private sector as well."

      I guess it's only a matter of time

      Delete
    5. Ideal %age of reservation in private sector should be zero whether for caste based or state natives. Anything makes investors flee.
      Im actually for considerable reservation for BCs in universites. But once in there, there is zero tolerance for reservations in grading and other nonsense.

      Delete
    6. "Ideal %age of reservation in private sector should be zero whether for caste based or state natives. Anything makes investors flee. 
      Im actually for considerable reservation for BCs in universites." --->

      Yes, same here. I am okay with reservation in primary school, colleges, free education etc. I m okay with reservation in public sector but private sector reservation will literally tear apart the country. Problem is that OBCs, SCs and STs comprise of hundreds and thousands of engodamous groups, ultimately, one would need to further provide sub-categorization in these categories and ultimately , it will widen the already existing gulf. Bad days ahead.

      Delete
    7. "(Disaster. At this rate AP will turn into Bihar in a few years. Heck Bihar has a positive trajectory, it may overtake AP if Reddy insists on these harebrained schemes.)"
      hahahaha ysv _rao seems too have soft corner for chandrababu naidu

      Delete
    8. Paritala Ravindra had much potential but YS Reddy, after coming to power in 2004, allegedly had him killed in a shootout. From 2004 to 2005, about 1000 active and resourceful members of Telugu Desam Party were killed off in various operations. it is alleged that Jagan Reddy and his followers provided Ravi's killers with info and equipment while they were in jail. How come it was only after INC/YSR came to power that the Suri became so emboldened and found the means to take out Ravi?

      Delete
    9. I dont have a soft corner for Naidu. I have been critical of Naidu on many issues. He has blood on his hands when it comes to farmer death due to mismanagement of resources. I even defended YSR Reddy from wild Hindutva claims that he wishes to start Christian conversions in Tirupati.
      But I will say this- as you pointed out factionalism is alive and well with Reddys and they are far more vengeful and vicious than their Kamma counterparts. See how CBN is treated after his loss , undergoing security checks and other petty humiliations. If this continues, TDP loyalists will reignite old hatreds and it will hacking and bomb blasts all over again.

      Delete
    10. " From 2004 to 2005, about 1000 active and resourceful members of Telugu Desam Party were killed off in various operations. it is alleged that Jagan Reddy and his followers provided Ravi's killers with info and equipment while they were in jail."

      Back in 2008, I remember a pro Reddy website with columns of numbers of those killed of each party and were gloating that Kammas and others associated with TDP were much higher.
      Similarly in Kamma forums such as Nandamurifans , a killing of a YSR worker was greeted with celebration. I believe many forum members even got together and hosted a party in a 5 star hotel when YSR died in 2009 helicopter crash.

      Delete
    11. Sir, YS Jagan Reddy's local reservation can be appealed in court and struck down, no?

      But even if it were implemented, how/why would it turn Andhra into Bihar? Are not Andhras highly educated and talented? I mean, companies would not find it too hard to get Telugus for work, right? Or will they?

      Also, is it impossible for Andhra politics to not involve violence? Because this looks abnormal.

      Delete
  24. YSV, how does the "affirmative action" in america works ?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Affirmative action like reservations in India had a noble cause -to uplift the discriminated and deprived i.e African Americans and Hispanics. If you have 1/4th(forget the exact fraction) Native American blood you are eligible for free admission in the college where you are accepted.

    However like reservations, it backfired helping neither the blacks , Hispranics nor the whites and Asian Americans(be they East Asian or Indians) , the latter elbowed out of college seats despite having high scores.
    Harvard recently was caught red handed actively suppressing Asian American attendance in favor of blacks. To get into Harvard you need have an SAT score of about 1480 or above but blacks get in with 1150 which isnt a bad score but not IVY league material.
    As a result , just as in India people are nervous of being operated on by an SC/ST doctor as they suspect he/she hasnt studied as rigorously as their Brahmin or sat Shudra counterparts, similarly in U.S competent black doctors en masse are found only in fiction. And when an African American brain surgeon like Dr. Ben Carson (head of Housing Dept under Trump) who genuinely is gifted and talented turns up, he is made into a celebrity. For every Dr. Ben Carson, there are hundreds of Japanese AMerican and Indian American and of course white equivalent but they are not exceptional but expected so they arent given much prominence.

    A serious problem with pushing blacks up in very elite colleges is that since they are not upto the mark, teachers often bend over backwards to pass them due to political correctness and fear of being sued. And this earns the resentment of his classmates and builds up anger in the black student.
    A mid tier school where he is average or above average is much healthier for developing skill set and his mental outlook which will achieve success. But leftists rarely think of these things. THey simply see a low percentage of a specific ethnic group in elite institutions and they want to correct it NOW rather take the realistic ,methodical approach of generations long hard work of developing stable families, strong work ethic, cultural shifts and discipline.

    ReplyDelete
  26. "To get into Harvard you need have an SAT score of about 1480 or above but blacks get in with 1150 which isnt a bad score but not IVY league material." --- Lol, similar scenario here if one sees the cut-off marks for IIT, IIMs etc. for different categories.


    "As a result , just as in India people are nervous of being operated on by an SC/ST doctor as they suspect he/she hasnt studied as rigorously as their Brahmin or sat Shudra counterparts, similarly in U.S competent black doctors en masse are found only in fiction.
    And when an African American brain surgeon like Dr. Ben Carson (head of Housing Dept under Trump) who genuinely is gifted and talented turns up, he is made into a celebrity
    " ---- Similar scenario here.


    "A serious problem with pushing blacks up in very elite colleges is that since they are not upto the mark, teachers often bend over backwards to pass them due to political correctness and fear of being sued. And this earns the resentment of his classmates and builds up anger in the black student." --- Again similar scenario here.


    "A mid tier school where he is average or above average is much healthier for developing skill set and his mental outlook which will achieve success" --- This is absolutely a brilliant piint , YSV. I believe a lot of anger in young SC students is precisely due to this. Forcing them in the class with studemts much higher than his/her calibre simply creates inferioty complex which creates anger and jealousy.


    "THey simply see a low percentage of a specific ethnic group in elite institutions and they want to correct it NOW " --- This representation bug has bitten the policy makers of india also.


    May be this is why i have seen a lot of African americans showing comradry with dalits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "May be this is why i have seen a lot of African americans showing comradry with dalits."

      This related to some fringe groups on the net. Chandrabhans PRasad-a Dalit intellectual, who saw the fraud and narcissim of Arundhati Roy dimissing her as a "bored housewife", praises whites for treating blacks as equals and promoting them. You will find a lot of Dalits prefer Western culture and its emphasis on individual rights because they see it as fairer. Another Dalit guy- Kancha Illiah noted that educated or even uneducated Dalits often wear only Western clothes in their weddings and special occasions.Because they associate traditional clothing with Brahmanical oppression . I would say that Dalits are on track to become the most pro Western block in Indian society if this caste hierarchy continues. THey may not convert to Christianity (though many do ) but certainly they wish to follow its values which they belive will help acquire success and respect.

      Delete
  27. "You will find a lot of Dalits prefer Western culture and its emphasis on individual rights because they see it as fairer" --- I know, a lot of them consider English language as the key to their "freedom" . Chandrabhan prasad, i believe, considers English language as 'goddess'.

    "Another Dalit guy- Kancha Illiah" --- I think he is OBC, not SC.

    "I would say that Dalits are on track to become the most pro Western block in Indian society if this caste hierarchy continues. " --- They themselves(especially the dominant dalit castes like Jatavs, Mahars) practice caste hierarchy towards the weaker castes. To me , it's more about finding a new identity than discrimination. Most of the times, you will find a poor SC guy to be hardcore hindu
    but it's the more fortunate and educated ones who turn 'atheist' and 'western' .




    ReplyDelete
    Replies

    1. "You will find a lot of Dalits prefer Western culture and its emphasis on individual rights because they see it as fairer" --- I know, a lot of them consider English language as the key to their "freedom"

      I dont see the need for snide quotes around the word freedom. If learning English enhances their education, career and monetary outlook then yes its freedom becomes it gives them more options compared to learn provincial languages in a village being beaten by higher caste people for riding a horse or having a house higherr than a landlords. We dont think such things occur because we are city people but in the interiors these things happen everyday.

      Delete
    2. Regarding, the 'horse' incident that happened one year ago in gujarat.


      https://www.news18.com/news/india/gujarat-dalit-youth-killed-for-harassing-girls-not-keeping-horse-police-1704613.html


      If you read from a 'right wing source' , https://www.opindia.com/2018/04/truth-about-21-year-old-dalit-man-killed-for-owning-a-horse/

      Of course, not denying such incidents don't occur but a lot of times incidents are twisted and misinterpreted.

      Consider another such recent news from Uttar Pradesh

      https://m.timesofindia.com/city/varanasi/up-dalit-girl-alleges-stopped-from-using-toilet-on-bhu-campus/articleshow/70193772.cms

      Delete
    3. This is from the opIndia article

      In fact, police claimed that he used to harass girls and villagers were angry with his activities and police suspect he may have been killed over that. Police claim that villagers had complained that Rathod used to perform stunts on horse and motorcycle whenever he confronted girls.

      Apparently the guy was killed because he performed stunts on horses and motorcycles in order to impress girls. Yes, what a monster. Lynch him immediately! Seriously this rationale is even more stupid and deranged than merely the horse motive.
      However it does not preclude the horse motive. Let us examine a scenario. Suppose I am a black guy in 1960s Alabama during the dark days of segregation, I get myself some cool wheels ,a Carmen Ghia perhaps and stroll around town drag racing waving at white girls. Now this is not a good idea in that milieu and surely there will be some who would say "what business does that nigger have driving that car. why is he looking at our women", things get escalated and he is killed. THe police chief who is related to the killers and is sympathetic to them will dispell any notion that he was killed for having a nice girl but will he say that he "outraging the modesty" aka sexually harassing women.ANd what is harassment, that depends on context here doesnt it

      What I said isnt purely hypothetical. Hispanics were killed in the 1940s for wearing suits which American soldiers considered unsuitable for their status in society
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots

      Delete
    4. he was killed for having a nice girl "

      That should be: killed for having a nice car.

      Delete
    5. "THe police chief who is related to the killers and is sympathetic to them will dispell any notion that he was killed for having a nice girl but will he say that he "outraging the modesty" aka sexually harassing women.ANd what is harassment, that depends on context here doesnt it" --- What you said couuld be true but threre is a slight difference here. We have reservations in Police also :) . Also, we have a very powerful and strong body known as NCSC which is completely manned by SCs.

      Delete
  28. "it gives them more options compared to learn provincial languages in a village being beaten by higher caste people for riding a horse or having a house higherr than a landlords. We dont think such things occur because we are city people but in the interiors these things happen everyday." ----

    Everyday is an over-exaggeration. Such events do happen but not 'everyday' . Some of these are even fake and manipulated and twisted like this one
    https://swarajyamag.com/politics/ground-report-not-caste-oppression-but-humiliation-from-fellow-dalits-that-is-making-50-families-embrace-islam

    .The penetration of internet is quite deep. Besides, the pie of reservation is eaten by city-folks who garner sympathy by showing stories of unfortunate SCs. Mind you, there is no creamy layer in SC.

    Such events are very unlikely to happen in SC dominated villages where MP and MLA seats are reserved for them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Everyday is not an exagerration considering a country of a billion and almost a quarter of which a Dalits and a good proportion live in the countryside. THe media is not that much interested in these matters.

      Of course SCs and BCs are more likely to commit these outrages against Dalits because they are more in contact with them and by doing this they can take the humiliation they suffer at the hands of upper castes. Thats just human nature. Irish and Italians were fare more racist against blacks than WASPs because WASPs did not dwell next to blacks and by the former picking on blacks, it them feel superior.
      Look around you in the media, industry, movies, sports etc. How many Dalits do you see? Heck you see more northeasterners who are miniscule part of the population prominently than you see Dalits?
      There is a serious problem of a large underclass in this country. Closing your eyes to this problem and say that this particular scenario is twisted because its intra Dalit persecution wont make the problem go away.
      If you dont wake up, what is coming are the guillotines.

      Delete
  29. "The media is not that much interested in these matters." ---- Trust me, The media is very much interested in these matters. They actually sniff for such news as it gives very high TRP. NDTV, Print, The Hindu, Caravan Magazine , Scroll etc are few such outlets . Hell, one such outlet even did a caste analysis of Pulawama martyrs.

    Just a few day ago, i read an article in Caravan Mag by a dalit who talked about how oppressive "Hindi Language" is.

    "Of course SCs and BCs are more likely to commit these outrages against Dalits because they are more in contact with them and by doing this they can take the humiliation they suffer at the hands of upper castes" ---- Wait, thought SC = Scheduled Castes = Dalits.


    "Look around you in the media, industry, movies, sports etc. How many Dalits do you see?" ---- I know a few prominent SC journalists but i believe a lot of them don't reveal their identity. Unlike USA, where it's easy to distinguish a black and white , it's not so easy to distinguish an SC and non-SC person.

    "
    There is a serious problem of a large underclass in this country" --- How to solve this then ? Population control at least in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar should be the first step.

    "If you dont wake up, what is coming are the guillotines." --- Sute but if the subaltern and the oppressed think that 'revolution' is the way forward then they need to remind post revolution, the whole economy will collapse and the next recovery might take a century. India(at least the gangetic plains) is yet to recover from
    the colonial collapse. Any other collapse and it's game over

    ReplyDelete
  30. As with U.S, Canada, Europe and now India the media will do what its corporate masters tell it to do. Sure there are outrage Dalit stories but these are neccesary for venting. Just as a pressure cooker that release to keep it from exploding.
    Now the journalism level of India is very poor . The most important questions are who, what,why,when,how. These are never answered with "person of community x assaulted community y after the latter said something possibly communal about the latter. Police are investigating."
    The End.
    Thats the story. we know which communities they are talking about. ANd yes it is richly hypocritical to fan the flames of inter caste Hindu hatred while artificially pretending all is well with Hindu Muslim relations by with holding information.
    Having said that, in the countryside such outrages are just tip of the iceberg and more are coming and will keep increasing. Why? Because increasing social awareness and opportunities will mean more clamoring for status and that will lead to violence by upper castes who prefer Dalits "know their place" and not drive around in fancy car, marry upper caste women, having houses higher than landlords etc.
    Yes this is not so much an issue in the cities. My own cousin married a Dalit man, we couldnt care less. However those two are unwelcome in our village. Anyway they are least bothered by this.
    "Wait, thought SC = Scheduled Castes = Dalits."

    Doesnt this depend on the state. Its kind a gray area.

    "I know a few prominent SC journalists but i believe a lot of them don't reveal their identity. Unlike USA, where it's easy to distinguish a black and white , it's not so easy to distinguish an SC and non-SC person. "
    IF they dont reveal their identity that still shows there is a problem. If journalists, the more progressive or self proclaimed progressives of our society, are unable to accept Dalits in their midst, then it is serious situation.
    I dunno about other states, but in Telangana, SC/STs can be dark and rather tall. In fact some men look like actor Denzel Washington. IF they would move to America, they would be an instant hit with women of all races haha. The SC/ST women are not my cup of tea LOL
    Anyhow you can tell by their last names(assuming its not made up) ,their food habits etc. Unless there has been considerable Sanskritization. I knew a prosperous oil engineer in Canada whose name was something like Gautam Anandraj. He is a Tamil Dalit. A generic slightly north Indian sounding last name is common among many Tamil Dalits as their clan names are identifiers. Of course Periyarism dropped these names and so these are mostly patrynomics anyway


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Because increasing social awareness and opportunities will mean more clamoring for status and that will lead to violence by upper castes who prefer Dalits "know their place" and not drive around in fancy car, marry upper caste women, having houses higher than landlords etc." ---- Not denying such incidents but it also means increasing chances of fake cases as the compensation money is quite high. Anyways, as you said that one should always mention who,why etc . Blanket terms like 'upper castes' gives no information on the identity of perpetrators when lot of times they turn out to be OBCs and sometimes different SC castes themselves. Besides, the educated ones are no angels. The kind of slurs they use especially for brahmims is something to witness on social media.

      "However those two are unwelcome in our village. Anyway they are least bothered by this." --- imter-jaati marriages are generally unwelcome even among jaatis having 'similar status' in villages. I wonder how well reception a kamma-reddy marriage will get in rural areas.


      "Doesnt this depend on the state. Its kind a gray area." --- No, it doesn not. There is no list of 'dalit' jaatis released by central and state government. Dalit is a word used for scheduled castes. For scheduled tribes, it's adivasis.

      "IF they dont reveal their identity that still shows there is a problem. If journalists, the more progressive or self proclaimed progressives of our society, are unable to accept Dalits in their midst, then it is serious situation." ---- No, it's not like that. I thought that most of the ambedkarites believed in 'anhilation of caste' and hence removimg identities.
      Having jaati-agnostic surnames was one such step. When i said don't reveal their identities, i meant to the readers.
      I believe you are trying to project identity politics of USA to india.
      Do we really need to come to that level where in private companies hiring, people will have to mention their 'caste' in their CVs for extra brownie points ?


      Delete
    2. Managed to restore the comment

      "Do we really need to come to that level where in private companies hiring, people will have to mention their 'caste' in their CVs for extra brownie points ? "

      If anything I want the opposite. A society where that makes no difference

      "Besides, the educated ones are no angels. The kind of slurs they use especially for brahmims is something to witness on social media."

      I never said Dalits are angels. I said they are victims. Leftists believe victims=virtuous. I dont subscribe to that. When given some agency such as social media, they will misuse it,thats just human nature.

      Re SCs/Dalits. Nadars were once the equivalent of Dalits, now on their way to becoming OBCS if not even upper castes in the future.

      Delete
    3. "Re SCs/Dalits. Nadars were once the equivalent of Dalits, now on their way to becoming OBCS" ---
      YSV, i believe you are confusing
      economic mobility (and possibly social mobility locally). Nadars are already OBC in the central list. Please check the Tamil Nadu OBC list below.

      http://ncbc.nic.in/User_Panel/GazetteResolution.aspx?Value=mPICjsL1aLv%2b2hza1cVSjGj2lbN6VTmq%2fWN4CcSyOxTDAvIblVnkv9NFuhO%2bdz42

      As far as i know, post 1950, i have not come across an SC jaati which has been transferred to OBC list. Groups have only become 'backward' or 'scheduled' or are fighting to become backwards .
      Re Nadars, i thought there were many sub-groups within nadars, some were Landlords, some kalari warriors and a subset, Shanars were landless peasants.i believe you are talking about the plight of Shanars.

      Delete
    4. Edit* --- YSV, i believe you are confusing 
      economic mobility (and possibly social mobility locally) with mobility in constitutional granted 'status' .

      Delete
    5. Nadans are the landlords. Nadars were their slaves or indentured servants working on their palm trees who became prosperous thanks to missionary education ,land reforms and Periyarism(one of his good contributions)
      Economic mobility often leads to social mobility ,yes even in India.

      Delete
  31. "How to solve this then ? Population control at least in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar should be the first step. "
    Population is not so much the problem as culture. A lot of Dalit persecution is due to inferiority complexes of the country as a whole. When you are zero on the world stage accounting for size and population, then itfeels good to kick a can while brooding on the road. Unfortunately that can is Dalits. What is needed is simply stern enforcement of existing rules. Caste discrimination is illegal. simply lock up the miscreants or make them do community service. Invest in roads, schools ,hospitals, basic infrastructure of transportation ,electricity water for all. I know its a cliche but where is all this. Most districts dont have atleast 3 of these things.

    "Sute but if the subaltern and the oppressed think that 'revolution' is the way forward then they need to remind post revolution, the whole economy will collapse and the next recovery might take a century. India(at least the gangetic plains) is yet to recover from
    the colonial collapse. Any other collapse and it's game over"
    I am not a fan of the French Revolution at all. It was ghastly business. When I see so called educated lawyers such as Markandey Katji praise the French Revolution which depsite its appeal to Reason(the revolutionaries placeda statue to Reason in Notre Dame) was all about emotion fuelled by mob fury. Just like leftists are today. Which is just as well as the French Revolution created the Left and Rousseau are their god fathers. Rosseau who believed that morality ,religion and laws are shackles than confine mans true innocence and goodness. We all saw how that turned out.
    I am trying to avoid collapse by atleast acknowledging the problem. Simply saying that the press is corrupt and hypocritical (yes they are both) and hence they are lying about these events will not help. Even a liar may occasionally tell the truth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "What is needed is simply stern enforcement of existing rules. Caste discrimination is illegal." --- Shouldn't it go both ways ? What if Bhim army men use 'caste-slurs' for other castes :) ?

      Delete
    2. Technically I am for free speech. Everyone should be able to abuse everyone as they pleases. But since it doesnt exist as such in India, might as well ban hate speech no matter who is the target.

      Delete
    3. @ Tim Drake
      Apologies, I accidentally deleted your message when I wished to hit reply, the browser moved and i clicked delete inadvertently.

      Anyway I remember most of your responses. You said that i wish to project identity politics of USA on India. hahaha Indian situation is American identity politics on steroids because India is much more diverse and each community takes pride in its identity. You mentioned that the Dalit journalist left out his last name for sake of the readers rather than his colleagues. Well thats more understandable but not quite acceptable. A newspaper which presumably crows about Dalit rights should stand by its employee and celebrate his identity at the cost of loss of subscribers. What it shows is that money talks and the paper willing to throw its own rhetoric under the bus.

      Kamma Reddy marriages are accepted if they are not rivals of some sort.

      When I mean upper castes harassing Dalits, I meant actually castes higher than them. Should have phrased it better. Yes I know majority of incidents with Dalits are with OBCs. It is up to upper castes to say hey you cut it out. Perhaps they are saying this indirectly through their disproportionate representation among Naxalites.

      Regarding sceduled castes, at one point Yadavs in Bihar and AP were considered scheduled caste and tribes. But once these pastoral groups applied Yadav to their name , they rose up the ranks. Of course this is more than 80 years ago.

      Delete
  32. "A newspaper which presumably crows about Dalit rights should stand by its employee and celebrate his identity at the cost of loss of subscribers" --- i always thought that the endgame was annhilation of identity (or at least weakening of it not enforcing it). Having jaati-agnostic names was one such step.

    "Perhaps they are saying this indirectly through their disproportionate representation among Naxalites." --- To be honest, i think rather than social justice, it might be clamor for power . May be such high caste telegus who lead naxalite forces have just found an another way to maintain their power(may be a lot of them are political rejects at the local level) similar to the communist leaders of bengal.

    "Regarding sceduled castes, at one point Yadavs in Bihar and AP were considered scheduled caste and tribes." --- i think they would have been considered tribes not Sch. castes. For scheduled castes(or rather depressed class) , one needed to show some kind of 'untouchability'(not always true however) and considering how Ahirs and gwalas herd the sacred aryan beast 'cow' , i can't believe they would have been treated as 'untouchable castes' . Of course, they might be socially and educationally backward. In bihar, there was a saying that back in the old times times 'wealth' was determined by the number of 'Go-Dhana' (cows, bulls) that a family had.


    The only true 'untouchable' /scheduled castes in Bihar would be 'Mahadalits' groups(Bihar has further clasified SCs into Dalits and Mahadalits) and they would be Dom, Mushara etc. These groups look a different and only recently i found out that they south-east asian ancestry(i believe some connection with the Munda tribals).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. -- i think they would have been considered tribes not Sch. castes. For scheduled castes(or rather depressed class) , one needed to show some kind of 'untouchability'(not always true however) and considering how Ahirs and gwalas herd the sacred aryan beast 'cow' , i can't believe they would have been treated as 'untouchable castes' . Of course, they might be socially and educationally backward. In bihar, there was a saying that back in the old times times 'wealth' was determined by the number of 'Go-Dhana' (cows, bulls) that a family had."

      True but historically the social progression went like this

      hunter/herders- Dalits- lower caste- upper caste/landlords/kings

      NOw many pastoralists/herders through force of their military ability might skip the Dalit phase and proceed directly to kings and then hires pundits to contrive elaborate geneologies. Some like Kakatiyas revel they were neither solar nor lunar races but former bondsmen.

      "To be honest, i think rather than social justice, it might be clamor for power . May be such high caste telegus who lead naxalite forces have just found an another way to maintain their power(may be a lot of them are political rejects at the local level) similar to the communist leaders of bengal."

      True, I wrote about this high caste composition of communist party and their militia Naxalites before. I think it is a mixture of self preservation, genuine idealism and self interest on caste basis

      Re basis during the Telengana rebellion against the "Nizam", the first target of the armed peasants were not the Muslims (Razakars came later) but their Velama and Reddy landlords. Soon Velama and Reddys joined their forces against the Nizam. Its basically like when captured by say Pakistanis you throw away your Indian uniform sport Pakistani salwar kameez and say Hindustan Murdabad LOL.

      That said there are upper caste people who do genuinely believe in the ideology and without provocation or threats gave away their lands to the peasants, freed bonded laborers and worked for their upliftment via armed struggle

      Delete
    2. "That said there are upper caste people who do genuinely believe in the ideology and without provocation or threats gave away their lands to the peasants, freed bonded laborers and worked for their upliftment via armed struggle" ---- Yes, of course, true. A lot of 'social reformers' were brahmins themselves

      Delete
    3. Why do you keep putting words such as freedom and social reform in quotes. Is it your position that no reform of Hindu social structure is neccessary or that every attempt to do so is some missionary Marxist conspiracy?

      Delete
  33. "Why do you keep putting words such as freedom and social reform in quotes" --- My bad, i didn't want to put quote around 'social reformers' however, the word quote aroumd 'freedom' was deliberate .

    "Is it your position that no reform of Hindu social structure is neccessary or that every attempt to do so is some missionary Marxist conspiracy?" --- Of course No. I support all the reforms that have happened till now. However, i still haven't properly understood 'hindu social structure' . There's a lot more that i need to learn about the origin of jaatis, tribes and how their interaction has evolved.

    However, if you think that we would have a panmictic population united under the 'hindu' label just like islam , i don't think that would ever happen.
    Lot of groups won't give up their identities(this includes certain tribals also) because these identities might be older than the word 'hindu' itself :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. however, the word quote aroumd 'freedom' was deliberate .

      https://scroll.in/article/898862/india-is-home-to-the-worlds-largest-slave-population-yes-slavery-still-exists

      When you meet these people, be sure to use air quotes when talking about their freedom because as per you its just their state of mind.

      Delete
    2. "when talking about their freedom because as per you its just their state of mind." --- This was in reference to rich SCs who are by no means doing bonded labour. Hence, i asked for implementation of some kind of creamy layer or atleast move the forward SC jaatis like Mahars, Jatavs etc to OBCs constitutionally . A bonded labourer doesn't have the time to talk about freedom on internet.

      "https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/country-studies/india/" --- This was the report from which the above news article has ultimately quoted.
      Unfortunately , roughly 18 million people are still engaged in bonded labor , i thought the % would be higher considering the population here is 1.25 billion.
      The above article, in general talks about migrants from poor states of eastern and north-eastern states, who due to lack of jobs in their home states have to migrate to other places and then work for insane hours and get very bad wages (apart from other issues like women trafficking).

      This is more of an issue with eastern and north-eastern regions which have very high population and very few numbers of jobs. Unfortunately, people would be forced to move out to other states where some of them could be very badly underpaid. Just to let you know, there are even bihari brahmins working as security guards in Haryana.


      The question is - what's the solution here ?

      Delete
    3. The solution? Im sure there are various laws against this kind of thing. But as long as they are not implemented ,whats the use? Economics and laws play a role but a bigger role is basic common decency and morality.
      Megasthenes noted that Indians were so honest that no overseers of the treasurers and accountants was needed , on other hand Greeks were so corrupt and creative at pilfering that they would manage to skim of the top no matter how many were leaning over their shoulder.Large sections of Indian society are apathetic and corrupt aka tamasic whether the police,judiciary, industrialists, even NGOs and "social workers"(yes many these guys deserve quote marks) but mostly the large middle and lower middle class which can make a difference and speak out choose not to do so. Because Hindus are no longer idealistic but coarsely pragmatic in the most vulgar and self absorbed manner. And while there are many SCs and lower castes who misuse and abuse power when they get a chance,most are so browbeaten and fatalistic that they can envision any other life and just accept this as their lot.

      Now coming to the solution, I think its simple- international mocking and humiliation via YouTube videos. Yes really I think the pain of being taunted and derided by foreigners will finally take effect. Look at how the Indian reacting comments to foreigner comments over the poor hygienic condition of fast food/wada pav/cheese sandwich/biryani or what have you stalls changed from defiance to embarassment and acceptance of the sorry conditions. I heard some restaurants even fixed their standards after seeing the comments.

      Same goes for here. What is needed is an outside perspective- a fresh pair of eyes to look at the situation and tell them squarely that this is not how a civilized country should behave. Sure initially some idiots would point that the West practiced slavery and so shouldnt judge India or some other retarded arguments but enough pressure would yiled the guaranteed results.
      Indians are a sensitive people who take humiliation very seriously. So it should applied liberally for a good cause(s).

      Delete
    4. At one point, each state will start restricting the number of jobs available to out of state residents in order to make this point. And I dont blame them. Just when Bangalore was on the verge on becoming not a first world but perhaps a developed city comparable to some 2nd tier Western cities, the hordes starting appearing and destroyed the character of the place. Same thing happened to Mumbai around the 1950s which was a rather pleasant place ,clean and orderly. We all know how it is today.
      At one point developed states should let others know that they are no longer welcome. ANd this will force those states to fix their own house. Bihar infrastructure and development improved drastically after the fierce response to Bihari immigrants in Maharashtra and Gujarat in 2008. The Bihar government realized that exporting their problems to other states is no longer feasible.

      Delete
  34. "Now coming to the solution, I think its simple- international mocking and humiliation via YouTube videos." --- I thought your answer would be geared mostly towards fixing economy and creating wealth. I don't think humiliation would mean much, i think india has been humiliated enough for it's corruption yet it continues.


    "Sure initially some idiots would point that the West practiced slavery and so shouldnt judge India or some other retarded arguments but enough pressure would yield the guaranteed results. " --- i am not sure comparison with the west is required . Most western countres built their wealth and prosperity through colonization while subcontinent was largely drained and the gangetic plains became full of malnutritioned people dying here and there. In my naive opinion, it's hard to develop while being a democracy. May be india should look east (like China) on how to become a developed nation and how to reduce the number of underclass.

    "police,judiciary, industrialists, even NGOs and "social workers"(yes many these guys deserve quote marks) " --- Yeah, NGOs and social workers are no angels especially NGOs. A lot of them aim to destabilize the country and sometimes even force people to file fake cases.
    Read this ---
    https://www.deshgujarat.com/2017/10/06/atrocity-attack-complaint-filed-by-limbodra-boy-was-bogus-and-under-ngo-influence-police-reveals-after-investigation/

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Circumstantial evidence of Chandragupta Maurya's victory over the Macedonians

Ajit Vadakayil: Deranged lunatic

Ajit Vadakayil: What is he?