Kunal Singh:Tantra, Yantra, Mantra in mainstream Hinduism
To clear up some misconceptions I want to make it clear that yogis do use
certain herbs both orally and by inhalation. But the herbs are not taken to
create "psychedelic" experiences nor is meditation meant to create some
undefined strange mystical experience. The practice of meditation is very
well defined in Hinduism and the expectations from it are also well defined.
One cannot generalize anything regarding all sadhus as that would span
everything from murderous criminals hiding out from the police to real yogis
devoted to yoga practice. Yogis are not after "some" psychadelic experience
caused by drugs. Ideally they want to be able to increase the energy in
their body, and eventually manage to circulate it with mental intent. From
my personal experience I can say that it is indeed quite possible, but
requires a good deal of awareness to be intact for controlling the
circulation of the energy.
But just to clear up the issue of using herbs, certain herbs are used as
inhalation for general health and is a common feature of both Hindu worship
and Ayurveda. There are other herbs which are used to make meditation
easier. They don't CREATE experiences. They help the meditation by acting
as a mild sedative thereby enhancing the relaxation of the body. Certain
herbs have been identified by yogis as causing relaxation without losing
awareness and those are the most valuable for yogis. And those don't have
to be "smoked" literally, they can and are also used as part of herbal
incense. It is not for nothing that different incense is used by Buddhists
during initiation rites into tantra practice. In short, the yogi would want
relaxation without losing awareness as the ideal effect of any herb.
Though the poster didn't imply it, I wanted to bring up another point
anyway. The term "psychedelic" used with yoga disturbs me a little due to
some other opinions I've read associated with yoga. Just to set some other
mistaken notions straight:
1) Yoga is not intended to create "psychadelic" experiences which implies
randomness, it
requires the practitioner to be able to recreate the advanced states.
2) Mandalas are not intended to be stared at until the "psychadelic" colors
turn the light fantastic.
Buddhist mandalas are nothing but Hindu yantras. And just as a side
note, it is disrespectful to
use them as ordinary artwork on coffee coasters etc. as I've seen them
on. Such an action is
proof that the owner doesn't have a clue as to their real significance
and so has no idea why the
image deserves respect and reverence.
3) Herbs are not taken to induce random "psychadelic" experiences in yoga.
4) If a yogi who is capable of circulating energy, a minor feat by yoga
standards,
suddenly had a strange psychadelic experience, he would worry that he
may have
led the energy along some wrong pathway. It would be cause for some
concern.
5) Not all sadhus are real yogis, some are young men attempting to escape
from their
domestic life, and some others even from the police.
6) Yoga is not a separate discipline from the Hindu religion.
Shiva, the deity of yoga was always part of the Hindu religion, though
his status varied
considerably. In the end yoga, vastushashtra, ayurveda, astrology and
Hindu worship rituals
involving tantras, mantras, and yantras are closely related and fully
integrated due to close
interactions between the various schools. A devout Hindu cannot
accurately even do the most
basic "sandhya" without doing yoga first. And the full Sanskrit of the
sandhya he chants verily
includes yoga chakras. The chakras themselves are associated with
planets. His actions in the
rituals make use of everything from the understanding of the planets to
the Earth's magnetic flux
to the effects of a "planet or heavenly body" as the Sun on the pores of
the skin. None of this is
my claim, it is so stated if you know where to look.
......if we take your definition of psychedelic(dreaming up wild imagery,
hallucinations etc), the definition is too
general. What can't be termed "mind expanding!" Yoga I'm afraid is a bit
more specific than that. It is most concerned with "shodhana" or
purification which is not be interpreted in the Vaishnava sense of
cleanliness and goodness.
......You will notice that they(taxi drivers) do not install it(yantras,mandalas( on the floor of their cab and do pay reverence to the religious articles. Hinduism not only allows religion
in material matters but some aspects of it are verily designed to obtain
very material goals. The reason for the reverence for religious articles
isn't to restrict someone's freedom, it is to make visible that something
has special significance, that it is not ordinary, that it has greater
knowledge associated with it. Thus religious articles are revered and are
accorded respect.
......Your definitions (of psychedelic) are too loose and leave too much room for interpretation.
Let me be more specific. Ascetic or yogic practices place stress on the
physical body, the process of purification takes its toll. Herbs can be
used to aid the health of the physical body to enable it to rejuvenate
itself. One aspect of that rejuvenation is to induce relaxation, this is
not simply a mental thing, it enables the rejuvenation of the nervous
system.
It is not the case that Vaishnavas or Shaivites have come to different
conclusions in Hinduism. There differences of knowledge have certainly been
hammered out, only their traditions are somewhat different. For example, in
the last stages of the evolution of Hinduism, you see Durga being given the
Shaktis of all the various deities who willingly confer upon her their
powers creating a host of female deities. You do not see Vishnu saying I
will not give my power to Durga because she is a form of Parvati or Indra
saying that I do not recognize this Durga character.The fighting with new Asuras is a constant theme in Hinduism, always new
challenges for the existing deities, with all accepted deities forming an
alliance to challenge the new upstarts. Hinduism has always been divided
along the accepted beliefs and the newer questioned beliefs, that is what
separated the Devas and Asuras with some fights where the Devas want to
adopt the ideas of some Asuras and ask their supporters to bring some Asura
to their side!But in conclusion, every deity that you see today, from the gentle Laxmi to
the ferocious Kali has been ACCEPTED into the Hindu pantheon quite formally
during some very large discussions. Durga herself projects out of herself
all the Shaktis which comprises the entire Vaishnava and Shaivite spectrum.
She was created when the various Devas knew that they couldn't take on the
new Asuras individually. Traditions may be different, but the deities are the SAME! Yoga by itself
is actually singular. Hatha yoga has the same chakras as any other yoga.
The solar and lunar is discussed everywhere, as is fire all the way from the
texts of Hatha to Brhadranyaka Upanisad! Once you put it all together you
will realize why the chakras are even mentioned in the most basic of Hindu
worship rituals. The end goal is purification of the body. If three people
write a book on the same subject, the books will all be different, one
author will offer greater insight into one subject another would on another,
but the subject remains the same. How many books on history discussing the
same topics are the same ? Tantric/Kundalini/Shakti/Hatha oriented yoga is basically called Hinduism.
Due to its vastness people presume that Hinduism was never organized
successfully, but it was. The mantras of yoga are derived from the Hindu
Brahmana expressed as "sabda" and they are consistent with the mantras used
in Hindu rituals. The principles of the Hindu Brahman applied to the body
results in Ayurveda, applied to sound results in the Sanskrit alphabet, and
applied to astrology results in Jyotisha. The description of the human body
of the yogis is the same as that used in Ayurveda. When you study them in
depth, you will be surprised by the consistency. The rise of the Shakti
cult in the end should not be seen as the fall of the other deities, it
should be seen as the final integration of all the accepted deities.
Because that is what happens at the end of every fight between the Devas and
the Asuras, everyone knows their proper place.
Just to bring up some other commonly mistaken notions in western society
regarding Hinduism:
1) Tantra does not imply sex, it means a particular method and is generally
applicable to
anything where a systematic procedure needs to be laid down.
2) Tantric rituals are not different from Hindu rituals. Hinduism has
accepted the notions of Shakti long ago as far back as the times of
Vishwamitra when the Gayatri was composed. The Gayatri itself is intended
to develop internal energy within the human being and over a long period of
time (about 17 years) is supposed to give success and in about 24 years
various siddhis. So the current daily rituals of Hinduism FULLY INCORPORATE
the conclusions of the Shakti cults which at one time arose challenging the
then conventional thinking.
3) Shakti vs. Vaishnava is not a matter of racial differences. Many of the
Shakti proponents including Bhairava of the deity of Kali were Kshatriyas.
It had nothing to do with any Aryan/Dravidian divide imagined by people,
though there was definitely a divide between concepts espoused by Brahmins
and Kshatriyas due to personality differences. The ferocious natures and
non-traditional appearances and modes of worship of some deities probably
had more to do with the personality of the rishi associated with the deity
and the mere mention of the kshatriya Bhairava still invokes fear amongst
the traditional Hindus. And though all deities have priests associated with
them most Brahmins still find themselves attracted to Vishnu and the gentler
deities of Laxmi and Saraswati while deeming other Shaivite deities as
"tamasic," most of the populous agrarian societies descended from various
kshatriya castes still hold the maternal female Shakti deities in the
highest regard even in their most ferocious animal-sacrificing forms.
4) The concept of Shakti did not originate after Buddhism. As I've said
before, the legends of Durga seem to predate the birth of Buddha by a very
long timespan. And yet, within the more recent works of the Shakti cults in
some tantra texts mentions are made to Mahachina. But by the time most such
texts were formalized Tibet would have already received the tantric forms of
Buddhism from the north-eastern region where a good deal of the Shakti
tradition originated. Tibetan Buddhism has its roots in the north-east from
where many Buddhist scholars fled during the periodic attacks of the Huns
and the Sakas. And as Buddhism itself developed in this region, the deities
of Shakti entered the folds of Buddhism as scholars freely intermixed the
two religions. So there is plenty of scope for regions associated with
China to have received the lore of the Shakti cult before such texts were
written.
certain herbs both orally and by inhalation. But the herbs are not taken to
create "psychedelic" experiences nor is meditation meant to create some
undefined strange mystical experience. The practice of meditation is very
well defined in Hinduism and the expectations from it are also well defined.
One cannot generalize anything regarding all sadhus as that would span
everything from murderous criminals hiding out from the police to real yogis
devoted to yoga practice. Yogis are not after "some" psychadelic experience
caused by drugs. Ideally they want to be able to increase the energy in
their body, and eventually manage to circulate it with mental intent. From
my personal experience I can say that it is indeed quite possible, but
requires a good deal of awareness to be intact for controlling the
circulation of the energy.
But just to clear up the issue of using herbs, certain herbs are used as
inhalation for general health and is a common feature of both Hindu worship
and Ayurveda. There are other herbs which are used to make meditation
easier. They don't CREATE experiences. They help the meditation by acting
as a mild sedative thereby enhancing the relaxation of the body. Certain
herbs have been identified by yogis as causing relaxation without losing
awareness and those are the most valuable for yogis. And those don't have
to be "smoked" literally, they can and are also used as part of herbal
incense. It is not for nothing that different incense is used by Buddhists
during initiation rites into tantra practice. In short, the yogi would want
relaxation without losing awareness as the ideal effect of any herb.
Though the poster didn't imply it, I wanted to bring up another point
anyway. The term "psychedelic" used with yoga disturbs me a little due to
some other opinions I've read associated with yoga. Just to set some other
mistaken notions straight:
1) Yoga is not intended to create "psychadelic" experiences which implies
randomness, it
requires the practitioner to be able to recreate the advanced states.
2) Mandalas are not intended to be stared at until the "psychadelic" colors
turn the light fantastic.
Buddhist mandalas are nothing but Hindu yantras. And just as a side
note, it is disrespectful to
use them as ordinary artwork on coffee coasters etc. as I've seen them
on. Such an action is
proof that the owner doesn't have a clue as to their real significance
and so has no idea why the
image deserves respect and reverence.
3) Herbs are not taken to induce random "psychadelic" experiences in yoga.
4) If a yogi who is capable of circulating energy, a minor feat by yoga
standards,
suddenly had a strange psychadelic experience, he would worry that he
may have
led the energy along some wrong pathway. It would be cause for some
concern.
5) Not all sadhus are real yogis, some are young men attempting to escape
from their
domestic life, and some others even from the police.
6) Yoga is not a separate discipline from the Hindu religion.
Shiva, the deity of yoga was always part of the Hindu religion, though
his status varied
considerably. In the end yoga, vastushashtra, ayurveda, astrology and
Hindu worship rituals
involving tantras, mantras, and yantras are closely related and fully
integrated due to close
interactions between the various schools. A devout Hindu cannot
accurately even do the most
basic "sandhya" without doing yoga first. And the full Sanskrit of the
sandhya he chants verily
includes yoga chakras. The chakras themselves are associated with
planets. His actions in the
rituals make use of everything from the understanding of the planets to
the Earth's magnetic flux
to the effects of a "planet or heavenly body" as the Sun on the pores of
the skin. None of this is
my claim, it is so stated if you know where to look.
......if we take your definition of psychedelic(dreaming up wild imagery,
hallucinations etc), the definition is too
general. What can't be termed "mind expanding!" Yoga I'm afraid is a bit
more specific than that. It is most concerned with "shodhana" or
purification which is not be interpreted in the Vaishnava sense of
cleanliness and goodness.
in material matters but some aspects of it are verily designed to obtain
very material goals. The reason for the reverence for religious articles
isn't to restrict someone's freedom, it is to make visible that something
has special significance, that it is not ordinary, that it has greater
knowledge associated with it. Thus religious articles are revered and are
accorded respect.
Let me be more specific. Ascetic or yogic practices place stress on the
physical body, the process of purification takes its toll. Herbs can be
used to aid the health of the physical body to enable it to rejuvenate
itself. One aspect of that rejuvenation is to induce relaxation, this is
not simply a mental thing, it enables the rejuvenation of the nervous
system.
......"fakirs" typically belong to the sufi tradition which is more common in
the Islamic world. Yogis are not necessarily beggars, some may beg, others
may not. The term sanyasin or sadhu is typically applied to someone who has
left his family behind in a religious quest. That doesn't have to be yoga
practice, it may just be devotional service or even visiting holy sites.
Such people typically rely on the local populace to support them during
their travels.
the Islamic world. Yogis are not necessarily beggars, some may beg, others
may not. The term sanyasin or sadhu is typically applied to someone who has
left his family behind in a religious quest. That doesn't have to be yoga
practice, it may just be devotional service or even visiting holy sites.
Such people typically rely on the local populace to support them during
their travels.
.....There are two kinds of people in any society, traditional and
non-traditional. Some deities belong to the traditional folds of Hinduism,
others belong to non-traditional folds of Hinduism. What unites the two is
their constant interaction and exchange. For example, certain deities of
shakti are depicted as nude in cemeteries and others are depicted quite
clothed and proper. The difference arose from the founders of the deities
being either traditional or rebellious. The rishi Bhairava for example was
extremely non-traditional, the type who wouldn't think twice about even
killing a Brahmin belonging to the Shaivite tradition responsible for
starting the revolution of Kali (later many other shakti deities arise but
even Durga relies on Kali to defend herself giving her a special place in
the Shakti pantheon). So you may get the impression that the Vaishnava
school is free from his influence, but you would be wrong. He is mentioned
in most of the religious procedures of Hinduism, some of which you would
deem as quite Vaishnava.
non-traditional. Some deities belong to the traditional folds of Hinduism,
others belong to non-traditional folds of Hinduism. What unites the two is
their constant interaction and exchange. For example, certain deities of
shakti are depicted as nude in cemeteries and others are depicted quite
clothed and proper. The difference arose from the founders of the deities
being either traditional or rebellious. The rishi Bhairava for example was
extremely non-traditional, the type who wouldn't think twice about even
killing a Brahmin belonging to the Shaivite tradition responsible for
starting the revolution of Kali (later many other shakti deities arise but
even Durga relies on Kali to defend herself giving her a special place in
the Shakti pantheon). So you may get the impression that the Vaishnava
school is free from his influence, but you would be wrong. He is mentioned
in most of the religious procedures of Hinduism, some of which you would
deem as quite Vaishnava.
conclusions in Hinduism. There differences of knowledge have certainly been
hammered out, only their traditions are somewhat different. For example, in
the last stages of the evolution of Hinduism, you see Durga being given the
Shaktis of all the various deities who willingly confer upon her their
powers creating a host of female deities. You do not see Vishnu saying I
will not give my power to Durga because she is a form of Parvati or Indra
saying that I do not recognize this Durga character.The fighting with new Asuras is a constant theme in Hinduism, always new
challenges for the existing deities, with all accepted deities forming an
alliance to challenge the new upstarts. Hinduism has always been divided
along the accepted beliefs and the newer questioned beliefs, that is what
separated the Devas and Asuras with some fights where the Devas want to
adopt the ideas of some Asuras and ask their supporters to bring some Asura
to their side!But in conclusion, every deity that you see today, from the gentle Laxmi to
the ferocious Kali has been ACCEPTED into the Hindu pantheon quite formally
during some very large discussions. Durga herself projects out of herself
all the Shaktis which comprises the entire Vaishnava and Shaivite spectrum.
She was created when the various Devas knew that they couldn't take on the
new Asuras individually. Traditions may be different, but the deities are the SAME! Yoga by itself
is actually singular. Hatha yoga has the same chakras as any other yoga.
The solar and lunar is discussed everywhere, as is fire all the way from the
texts of Hatha to Brhadranyaka Upanisad! Once you put it all together you
will realize why the chakras are even mentioned in the most basic of Hindu
worship rituals. The end goal is purification of the body. If three people
write a book on the same subject, the books will all be different, one
author will offer greater insight into one subject another would on another,
but the subject remains the same. How many books on history discussing the
same topics are the same ? Tantric/Kundalini/Shakti/Hatha oriented yoga is basically called Hinduism.
Due to its vastness people presume that Hinduism was never organized
successfully, but it was. The mantras of yoga are derived from the Hindu
Brahmana expressed as "sabda" and they are consistent with the mantras used
in Hindu rituals. The principles of the Hindu Brahman applied to the body
results in Ayurveda, applied to sound results in the Sanskrit alphabet, and
applied to astrology results in Jyotisha. The description of the human body
of the yogis is the same as that used in Ayurveda. When you study them in
depth, you will be surprised by the consistency. The rise of the Shakti
cult in the end should not be seen as the fall of the other deities, it
should be seen as the final integration of all the accepted deities.
Because that is what happens at the end of every fight between the Devas and
the Asuras, everyone knows their proper place.
Just to bring up some other commonly mistaken notions in western society
regarding Hinduism:
1) Tantra does not imply sex, it means a particular method and is generally
applicable to
anything where a systematic procedure needs to be laid down.
2) Tantric rituals are not different from Hindu rituals. Hinduism has
accepted the notions of Shakti long ago as far back as the times of
Vishwamitra when the Gayatri was composed. The Gayatri itself is intended
to develop internal energy within the human being and over a long period of
time (about 17 years) is supposed to give success and in about 24 years
various siddhis. So the current daily rituals of Hinduism FULLY INCORPORATE
the conclusions of the Shakti cults which at one time arose challenging the
then conventional thinking.
3) Shakti vs. Vaishnava is not a matter of racial differences. Many of the
Shakti proponents including Bhairava of the deity of Kali were Kshatriyas.
It had nothing to do with any Aryan/Dravidian divide imagined by people,
though there was definitely a divide between concepts espoused by Brahmins
and Kshatriyas due to personality differences. The ferocious natures and
non-traditional appearances and modes of worship of some deities probably
had more to do with the personality of the rishi associated with the deity
and the mere mention of the kshatriya Bhairava still invokes fear amongst
the traditional Hindus. And though all deities have priests associated with
them most Brahmins still find themselves attracted to Vishnu and the gentler
deities of Laxmi and Saraswati while deeming other Shaivite deities as
"tamasic," most of the populous agrarian societies descended from various
kshatriya castes still hold the maternal female Shakti deities in the
highest regard even in their most ferocious animal-sacrificing forms.
4) The concept of Shakti did not originate after Buddhism. As I've said
before, the legends of Durga seem to predate the birth of Buddha by a very
long timespan. And yet, within the more recent works of the Shakti cults in
some tantra texts mentions are made to Mahachina. But by the time most such
texts were formalized Tibet would have already received the tantric forms of
Buddhism from the north-eastern region where a good deal of the Shakti
tradition originated. Tibetan Buddhism has its roots in the north-east from
where many Buddhist scholars fled during the periodic attacks of the Huns
and the Sakas. And as Buddhism itself developed in this region, the deities
of Shakti entered the folds of Buddhism as scholars freely intermixed the
two religions. So there is plenty of scope for regions associated with
China to have received the lore of the Shakti cult before such texts were
written.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Ideally they want to be able to increase the energy in
ReplyDeletetheir body, and eventually manage to circulate it with mental intent. From
my personal experience I can say that it is indeed quite possible, but
requires a good deal of awareness to be intact for controlling the
circulation of the energy."
Why is the English word 'energy' used in this context? I understand it is a translation of Sanskrit Shakti, but the Sanskrit word itself is not well-defined partly because Sanskrit is no longer used. As long as the meaning of energy meant here cannot be found in a standard dictionary, it is preferable to use some other word to clarify thought.
"Yoga is not intended to create "psychadelic" experiences which implies
randomness"
Psychedelic does not imply randomness. It best fits the description provided by the author. One can't avoid it simply because it offends one's sensibilities.
"And just as a side
note, it is disrespectful to
use them as ordinary artwork on coffee coasters etc. as I've seen them
on. Such an action is
proof that the owner doesn't have a clue as to their real significance
and so has no idea why the
image deserves respect and reverence."
Since the mandalas patterns are actually fine artwork in the real world, there is nothing wrong with using them in coasters. I don't support intentionally disrespectful ideas like Ganesh pictures in underwear, but this is acceptable.
"If a yogi who is capable of circulating energy, a minor feat by yoga
standards"
Again clarification required regarding 'energy' and 'circulation'. These words are used in physics in this exact order, hence readers might get confused and become prone to fuzzy thinking.
"The chakras themselves are associated with
planets. His actions in the
rituals make use of everything from the understanding of the planets to
the Earth's magnetic flux
to the effects of a "planet or heavenly body" as the Sun on the pores of
the skin. None of this is
my claim, it is so stated if you know where to look."
Irrespective of who claims it, it is a sequence fuzzily defined ideas. Worse, some of them are demonstrably false.
"It is most concerned with "shodhana" or
purification which is not be interpreted in the Vaishnava sense of
cleanliness and goodness."
Does that mean Yoga stimulates feel good hormones like endorphins? If yes, I agree. If it means Yoga rids us of negative thoughts altogether, evidence shows otherwise.
"Hinduism not only allows religion
ReplyDeletein material matters but some aspects of it are verily designed to obtain
very material goals."
That is because ancient people, while they laid the foundations of today's world, were also far more superstitious. We can't avoid using this tendentious word unless we want to change its meaning to something else.
"It is not the case that Vaishnavas or Shaivites have come to different
conclusions in Hinduism. There differences of knowledge have certainly been
hammered out, only their traditions are somewhat different."
Vaishnavites and Shaivates are not at each other's throat too often because of the pragmatic nature of Hinduism. However to an idealist, these two sects are still at odds with each other and their differences are far from hammered out.
"You do not see Vishnu saying I
will not give my power to Durga because she is a form of Parvati or Indra
saying that I do not recognize this Durga character.The fighting with new Asuras is a constant theme in Hinduism, always new
challenges for the existing deities, with all accepted deities forming an
alliance to challenge the new upstarts."
This optimistic estimation collapses when you note that the origin of this belief itself was sectarian. Here is another sectarian narrative: Brahma and Vishnu tried to find Shiva's zenith and nadir and failed at this enterprise proving Shiva's greatness. In older time, Vaishnavites would have objected to this, but today they just don't care. That should not be taken as evidence that the differences have been hammered. The differences have taken note of political reality as they always have.
"Due to its vastness people presume that Hinduism was never organized
successfully, but it was."
Scholars of different persuasions engaged in dialectic, but they never tried to create a uniform religion called Hinduism or Sanatan Dharm. That is because Hinduism mostly does not recognize heresy as a sin.
"The description of the human body
of the yogis is the same as that used in Ayurveda."
That is because they were informed by the same sources.
"The rise of the Shakti
cult in the end should not be seen as the fall of the other deities, it
should be seen as the final integration of all the accepted deities."
This comment is sectarian along Shakta lines. Imagine a Muslim proudly announcing in an American bar that the differences among Abrahamic religions are resolved under Islam, hence Islam is the "final integration".
"The Gayatri itself is intended
to develop internal energy within the human being and over a long period of
time (about 17 years) is supposed to give success and in about 24 years
various siddhis. So the current daily rituals of Hinduism FULLY INCORPORATE
the conclusions of the Shakti cults which at one time arose challenging the
then conventional thinking."
Yet we don't have reliable evidence of any modern Hindu professing these siddhis.
@YSV
ReplyDeleteOnce again a masterpiece by Kunal Singh.He has addressed many misconceptions Hindus themselves have on the finer points regarding Yoga,tantra etc.And ofcourse thanks for sharing this article :)
On the point of herbs,I dont know whether herbs were ever a part of the sadhana in ancient times,except the Soma Rasa.But herbs can induce psychadelic experiences and ancient yogis had surely known this.Probably the plants from which Soma Rasa was prepared in the past have become extinct or unidentifiable to us.
Yoga is about shodhana of the physical and mental plane but it doesnt stop with that.that is infact the beginning of the process of ultimate yoga with God in
Sahashrar.
Vaishnava tantra was like Shavite or Shakti tantra in the past.At present the method of worshipping Vishnu seems to have become less popular than those with Shiva or Shakti.But in ancient times some ancient scriptures showed Vishnu as the husband or Purush of Chamunda the Prakriti.Hence Vishnu also shared the same status as Shiva (ie the Purusha of Shakti).At present the more homely form of Shakti,ie,Lakshmi as the consort of Vishnu is predominant.
The change of Vaishnavism from Tantric path to Bhakti fold is due to the medieval bhakti era in India and the influence of Mahaprabhu and HariDasa Thakur in the
eastern India.Infact very few people actually know that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu himself had been a Tantra yogi at one point of time.He used to perform a very secret form of Tantra probably called "Radha Tantra(I cant recall the name of this branch but it was something like this)".In this form of tantra the human soul relishes Adi Purush Krishna in the mood of Radha and Radha in the mood of Krishna.I think this form of tantra has been lost completely at present with the demise of Mahaprabhu,as it was incredibly hard to uplift and sustain the human soul into Radha Consciousness or Krishna Consciousness.One form of tantra that might be a spinoff of ancient Vaishnava tantra or Radha Tantra is the present Sahajiya Tantra marg.Sahajiya Tantrik aspires to unite his soul with the Golden Man(Mahaprabhu) who is the supreme harmonization of Krishna(Purusha) and Radha(Shakti).The practices of Sahajiya Tantra show a mix up of the Shaivite/Shakti/ancient Vaishnava Tantra and modern Vaishnavism principles,like singing God's name,Kirtan etc.Apart from this the Taarak Brahma Naam(Hare Krishna Mahamantra) which is currently the most popular hindu mantra worldwide,was considered to be the most powerful mantra in Sanatan Dharma and hence kept secret by the Vaishnava Brahmins.It was not chanted openly,only secret initiation was given to deserving disciples.Mahaprabhu lifted this veil of secrecy on Kali santarana upanishad's Taarak Brahma Naam and opened it up for the whole world to chant the mantra without any restrictions whatsoever.This marked the end of the Tantric secrecy of Vaishnavism and made it a sect of the masses.
Delete@YSV
I dont think chakra has anything to do with planets.The seven chakras raise our awareness from the gross material dimension to increasingly subtle higher dimensions of higher frequencies until duality ceases to exist after merging into singularity.Similarly the abrohan phase from Sahashrar to Mooladhar shows the gradual conversion of subtle to gross,right from inexplicable singularity of KaranSagar to material world.The exploration of this inner space within human body has a very structured approach.As Kunal Singh rightly observed "None of this is my claim, it is so stated if you know where to look." .It requires effort and penance for the yogi to understand the profoundness inside his body.Kunal Singh also addressed another huge misconception or belief among many scholars that Shakti Tantra started with Buddhism.It is wrong.Tantra existed before or atleast parallely with Vedic Right Hand path.Ancient pre bengali records reveal the existence of an independent Tantra Dharma in the eastern part of India .Tantra did not arise from Veda(as even Vadakayil claims).Tantra was an independent mode of Sadhana separate and distinct from vedic Yajna route.Hence we find mention of Durga and Rudra in rig Veda but without the due importance given to them.It was later on that their weightage was accepted.
@YSV & PremChand
DeleteForgot to address the issue on mantras.Whatever mantra you might take up,be it Gayatri or MahaMrityunjaya or Taarak Brahma,it will not yield the same results like it did in the past because the correct frequencies have been lost.
51 alphabets of Sanskrit metaphorically represent 51 leaps of consciousness from material world to singularity of Sahashrar,when Kundalini is raised through the spine.The final alphabet of sanskrit denotes singularity.51 skulls as Kali's garland also hold the same significance.Nothing in ancient Sanatan Dharma representations were actually random and unrelated imagination.As Kunal observed in this article,every field of knowledge in Sanatan Dharma represented an underlying unity of wisdom.
@PremChand
I agree with your pov "In older time, Vaishnavites would have objected to this, but today they just don't care. " .Actually Sanatan Dharma inherently advocated monism,but monistic thinking was not generally encouraged by the ancient or medieval scholars.Somehow I feel that ancient Hindus were always inclined to persue monotheism instead of believing in monism.I feel this because of the constant striving of ancient authors to glorify one deity over the other.I can cite a practical example of this.In Bengal Narayan Sheela as KulaDevata is more common than Shiva(though Shiva is equally revered and worshipped).Hence the general line of thinking in Bengal is that Narayana gave birth to Shiva,who is the original deity,hence Mahadev(ie it is implied that Narayana is above all deities even Shiva).Even there is a popular calender pic in bengal which shows Narayana creating Shiva by touching the earth.In other states which have dominance of Shaivism(Iniyavel and Tamil Nadu :) ) ,Shiva is shown as the controller of Narayana.I personally have no problems with either belief,as I am truly monistic in my views.Infact most Hindus at present are believers of monism,whose credit to a large extent goes to Hindu reform Movement of premodern era.
Hence as you have observed ,I also think that Vaishnavas and Shavites just do not care at present in arguing on the superiority of Vishnu or Shiva :) But in the past they used to do this much more diligently.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say this Jayan fellow is a crank but he is riddled with too many complexes due to his appearances as being a Tuluva Vellalar is not a fair Caucasoid. as Tuluvas and Vellalars tend to be.
DeleteHis theory of Chola contribution to Bengali gene pool is unsubstantiated. The Chola adventure in Bengal was more of an invasion with very limited objectives (getting Ganga water for Gangaikondacholapurm) than a conquest and didn't have many lasting influences.
The wars against Chalukyas had more far reaching effects of demographics for both Karnataka and Tamil Nadu areas.
Even the Sena usurpers of Karnataka origin were only the elites and ddint import masses of people from the Deccan.
Many Bengalis look Mongoloid due to the proximity of such races in the easterm Himalayas. The dark skin is mostly likely due to Australoid tribals found all over India. Not just Bengal.
Also someone should inform that genius that "chinkyfied" is not an acceptable term and is quite racist. Furthermore a law in India was passed forbidding the use of this word to describe north easterners- penalties include jail time.
There is no shortage of fair skinned Bengalis either as the base demographic and culture is defnied by the Indo Aryan(for lack of better term) Vedic Caucasoid which defined Magadha and Ayodhya cultures.
And then you had an infusion of north western peoples including Kambojas from Afghanistan and Punjab when Palas conquered those territories.
Hence many Bengalis have green eyes etc.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@Iniyavel &YSV
Deleteactually North easterners are targetted openly in many parts of India with vile comments and often physical assaults.I am glad atleast they are not disrespected in Bengal on the basis of their ethnicity or region.The location of Darjeeling within bengal has played a role in this buildup of mutual respect.But the ground reality in rest of North India and probably some parts of South India is quite grim.School level bullying on North easterners for their appearance is probably taken as a normal thing these days throughout India.
Personally I am least bothered about whether Bengalis are fair or dark skinned in general :) What you do in life defines you not your skin.In that aspect Modern Bengal is quite behind many other Indian states due to the 30 years of fruitless communist rule.I see that as a greater impediment than the perceived abundance of dark skinned folks in Bengal :P My own skin colour is medium with tilt towards the darker shade :) I am planning some "fair and handsome" type cream use to go western in skin colour :P
@ JAM
DeleteI wasn't making a judgement call as such wrt fair or dark skin. Personally I prefer Bipasha Basu over Kareena Kapoor(who ahem cattily dismissed Bipasha as "kaali billi") ;)
Either way when I speak of "Caucasoid", it is not the blonde blue eyed variety of Hitler/Max Muller imaginations but more Amitabh Bachchan LOL
While I am against criminalizing speech, comparing discrimination in U.S and India are apples and oranges. Blacks fought and won their rights which are due to them so the Civil rights act bans discrimination against blacks but not Mexicans, gays, trannies and what have you. While it is not illegal to say the n word for blacks or refer to gays as "fags" , it is frowned upon. So there is a strong social pressure to do the right thing. This is where political correctness was useful until later on when it became an absurdity and excuse by various parties to muffle unwanted opinions.
Indians are delightfully unPC but this has a dark side as we see in their unabashed racism of anyone outside the North Indian upper to middle caste mean.
So if India doesn't have free speech to begin with and the north easterners get the short end of the stick I support ,however tentatively, banning words such as "chink" etc.
@ YSV
DeleteYeah I know you were never judging on skin colour :) I was just discussing the issue.
Good point on Bacchan :)
Your observation is also correct on the racial thinking of North Indian upper castes.I have personally seen this racial pride in one of my North Indian Kshatriya caste friend from UP.He was very consious and assertive about his caste,something which I never have seen among Bongs.But later on I found that he is not that much of an exception in his state :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLook at this idiotic comment in the Captain's blog:
ReplyDelete"Namaste Ajitji
Wondering if alice has managed to hand over our priceless Yog to the goras.
Just like the other so-called "Indian leader" who handed over our priceless Ved to the arctic goras a century ago.
Filled with deep misgivings. Yog turned into "Yoga", Om and the associated Samskrit mantras deleted from the Asans.
Can the goras even understand what Yog means without the spiritual Sanatan dharm basis?
Even normal hindus find it difficult to practice it eg Suryanamaskar with the breathing and the mantras together.
Why has alice done this? Reduced Yog to a mere physical exercise?
Warm regards"
And the equally idiotic reply:
"really wonderful thought. i really hate someone calls it Yoga, Oma, Omkara etc.
foolish goras & foolish indians who calls it so.
i always call it as Yog only."
Do these people think Hindi existed forever, like Sanatan Dharm? Which came first, Sanskrit or Hindi? Yoga is a Sanskrit word genius, whence it was borrowed into English.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@PremChand
Deletegot ROFL with that comment and Capt's immeasurably idiotic reply :)
@ PremChand & Iniyavel
DeleteBut this can be expected from a bootlicker of someone who analyses "BathSheba" word meaning by associating it with literal bathing in english :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@Premchand
DeleteLOL it is a feedback loop of stupidity. And the captain actually has the audacity to claim that he knows Sanskrit!
And who is Alice? And since when did the goras claim to originate from the Arctic? The only people living in the hard core Arctic are not goras but Eskimos, Lapps/Sami and Yakuts etc in North America, Scandinavia, Russia who are very Asiatic/Mongolian looking.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Iniyavel
DeleteThese things which capt is saying are lifted from some other conspiracy theory blogs.I had come by this theory even before I saw capt spreading it.I personally believe in the yuga cycle but I dont think satya yuga will come any time soon.Probably this yuga cycle has more to do with the spiritual evolution of collective human consciousness as a whole.We have not even reached real Kali if the descriptions given on Kali yuga in sanatan dharma scriptures is to be followed.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@ysv_rao Why do you support muslimized dhimmi institution like bollywood by even watching their movies (just glanced over the headline where you have reviewed some hindi movie)
ReplyDelete@Resident Tamil Eelam who thinks islam is good.
read these 2 articles.
Tamil muslims attacking police
http://www . thehindu . com/news/national/tamil-nadu/ambur-violence-100-held-for-attack-on-policemen/article7365364 . ece
letter from father whose daughter was passed around by Indian muslims
http://www . satyablog . org/2015/06/25/heartbreaking-letter-of-father-of-kidnapped-daughter-with-copy-to-narendra-modi/
I had posted a commented here one month back, did it get published?
@JAM: wait a few more days.
@makesdevildance
DeleteIf you would actually bother to read the entire post instead of glancing at it and making wild and ridiculous claims, then you would look less like a Hindutvadi fool(but I repeat myself)
The two articles suggest a law and order problem rather than anything distinctly inter religious. That is not to say that outrages perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam do not occur, I say that upper castes and lower castes routinely clash with police, rape SC/ST women etc and somehow Hindutvadis are AWOL on this matter.
What bothers me aboutmHindutvadis are the victimhood Olympics where we are helpless at the mercy of Muslim goons. They have no interest in actual Hindu assertiveness which repel Muslim thugs which happen quite often in UP, Rajasthan,Karnataka and other places. Muslims in India are rather quiescent compared to say 20 years ago. The occasional riots flare up here and there but in general the situation is quite placid if only because Indian Muslims in general are demoralized and dispirited.
Meanwhile Muslim blogs often play up Hindus raping Muslim women ie another contender for the gold medal of victimhood
I am not interested in reading such sensational anecdotes as it signifies nothing...Atleast not anymore. This isn't 1947-48. Such things don't go unnoticed and unpunished be it by the books or by extra judicial means.
read this
Deletehttp:// indiafacts . co . in/west-bengal-jihadi-playground/
@Makesdevildance
DeleteBelieve me I live in WB and it is not as bad as hindutva sites are proclaiming.Yes Mamata govt had allowed Jamaat Islami jihadis to operate from WB,but the target of Jamaat was Sheikh Hasina Govt of Bangladesh and not WB.infact the Jamaat islami episode in WB turned out to be a boon in disguise as after this incident the central govt is making great efforts in sealing up the WB and Assam border completely.But in general wb has 27% muslim population and they live quite peacefully and harmoniously with us.Riots occur here and there and infrequently but they do not touch or affect a major part of the population.I personally support a future bjp govt in WB not for antimuslim sentiments but for a better alternative from cpm and tmc.How will bengali hindus think on communal lines?because we never see bengali muslims attacking and fighting with us?As YSV said,stray incidents are overhyped by the hyperhindu or hyperislamic online blogs and circulated on social media.YSV also made a great observation when he said that the law breaking gatherings from hindu population on casteist demands etc.is selectively overlooked by hindutva online community.Same goes for Islamic online community also.When a hindu rapes a Muslim girl,they start shouting that the hour of Jihad has come.
btw makesdevildance I had responded to one of your comments on this thread : http://empiresoflight.blogspot.in/2015/05/circumstantial-evidence-of-chandragupta.html?showComment=1433181866587#c1207738960448154783
Load all the comments in this thread and search with the keyword "CNS" from browser field.It will land up to this particular comment.Direct loading from link might not be possible.
And here I have left a comment for you : http://empiresoflight.blogspot.in/2015/06/mr-sabhlok-it-is-not-i-who-is.html?showComment=1434174217534#c8353981674223188299 The above comment is loading directly from the link.
Check the comments according to your time.
@YSV
DeleteProbably you have missed this comment by a visitor :
http://empiresoflight.blogspot.in/2015/01/ancient-hindus-were-different-people.html?showComment=1435808934838#c2378372122141402467