Thursday, December 25, 2014

Indians are damn fools: What is the heck is wrong is Indian women? Exhibit A: Anceeta Martis

It seems you cant swing a dead cat without coming across an article about the various foibles of Indian men, most of these written by Indian women. Apparently we are unattractive,stingy,cruel, misogynistic,cowardly, weak , unhygienic,geeky and a plethora of other unappealing characteristics.
Far be it from me to disagree with much of a great deal of this. Sure, to some extant I actually agree with many of the complaints Indian women have with their men. But I would like to remind the ladies of Spenglers Laws of Gender Parity which states that
"In every corner of the world and in every epoch of history, the men and women of every culture deserve each other. "
In other words, Indian ladies you aren't exactly perfect either. Your flaws and virtues are the mirror image of those of Indian male. Indeed I will articulate the same in this article

Im not really a fan of this individual Barrister Mohandas Gandhi(I am informed he is referred to by another title) but he was quite prescient when he noticed that Indians have the knack for the picking up the vices of the Western world sans its virtues. Well that applies as much to Indian women as it does to the men.
It has been about time that someone point out the drawbacks of Indian women. Since very few are forthcoming ,let me do the honors.
Seeing as how Im an NRI and many of the female blog deals mostly with NRI men, my intention was to highlight the less than desirable qualities of NRI women to emphasize the defects of Indian women in general.
Why NRIs you may ask? Because I strongly believe in Abraham Linclons dictum that a person's true nature is revealed when he is given power. Because in achieving any sort of power be it financial, political, military,social or a combination of the above, all of our glories and warts are magnified.
And sad to say while Indian NRI men don't fare very well, Spenglers Law pretty much guarantees that Indian women don't either.
I came across the blog of this young college age woman called Anceeta Martis(age 19/20 as of late 2014) and she is pretty much typical of the NRI female of upper middle class background.
Normally I would  have someone older in mind such as graduate student in U.S as that is a very unique and sad category as I would soon explain but this one is pretty much already there.
Like most young Western educated Indian women these days she is a feminist and like most Indian feminists , she has a bizarre sense of entitlement and decries the lack of chivalry where men pay her way for dinner, drinks, gifts and open the door and stand up when a lady enters the room.
This tired entitlement trope has been skewered so frequently and mercilessly on the 'mansophere' and the MRM that it seems almost painfully redundant to address it here again. But I will say this much she seems the type of woman who thinks feminism is whatever should maximally benefit woman. Logic, ethics and standards be damned. So it is no surprise she feels she is equal and yet entitled.
And then there is this obessession and open talk about menstruation .MY GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH INDIAN WOMEN THAT THEY ARE SO SHAMELESS AND SO UTTERLY LACKING IN DISCRETION IN THIS REGARD. She actually complained that women are stigmatized from talking about it. IN WHAT PARALLEL UNIVERSE IS SHE LIVING IN , PRETTY MUCH EVERY INDIAN WOMEN OUT THERE HAS NO ISSUE DISCUSSING THIS MOST INTIMATE DETAILS WITH MALES PRESENT!
There was this girl who I went out with last year. No she didn't claim to be a feminist and yes I paid for everything. After a few drinks she actually whispered that I should remind her in a hour to change her pad (and no I am talking about an iPad!). Yes this was on a date. And yes she thought this was completely acceptable conversation to engage with a man you are trying to attract.
Needless to say , I never called her again after that day despite her frantic text messages.
And our women wail : how come romance is dead? They say this while wistfully watching old romantic movies with Audrey Hepburn. Say remember when Audrey Hepburn had to inform Cary Grant in Charade that she couldn't find a reasonably priced box of Tampax in Paris? No? neither do I. Why because ladies(Indian ladies especially), that is being classy and graceful. Discretion and mystique are a big part of it.
Look, menstruation is unpleasant and frankly gross. You know it is , so why do you need to yell it to the world? It deals with with your nether regions which us men prefer to think of in contexts as removed from bleeding as possible. What part of this don't you get exactly?
And there is the business of cussing and use of the f bombs. Perhaps I am a bit old school (I am on the "wrong" side of 30 after all) but I think a woman cussing is very unbecoming. Heck I don't cuss much myself and certainly not in my blog posts(comments section is another matter as some major league idiots and cretins only understand this language).
And Indian ladies please stop deluding yourself. Not everyone is trying to hit on you! You are not that hot. Due to the repressed nature of Indian society and skewed sex ratio and lack of proper grooming not to mention Australoid intrusion in our genetics, its pretty much slim pickens for Indian boys or girls in university. But keep in mind girls are the choosers and pursuees especially in a country like India so their sexual market value is inflated to absurd degrees
And when many of these women come to U.S for graduate studies, oh do they experience a brutal shock. Here the sex ratio is very much in favor of men and feminine appearance and beauty is held to a much higher standard than in India. Hence our self proclaimed beauty queens suffer a tremendous fall in stature -they are now literally a face in a crowd if even that. And these Indian female graduates ALMOST ALWAYS DRIFT TOWARDS MISANDRIST FEMINISM.
Oh good god do they become shrill, bitter and abrasive. At this point I should bring up another law of an astute American social commentator. In this case Sailers Law of Female Journalism
"The most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that social values be overturned in order that, Come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered hotter-looking."
In this case when applicable to Indian female graduate students it may read as " The most heartfelt pleas by female South Asian graduates tend to be demands that societal structures be overturned in order that, the social of milieu of an Indian university will be recreated and she will be considered desirable again."
Ms Martis considers herself to be rather attractive and thinks of her self as bit of a prima donna all the while maintaining the pretense of a down to earth individual. Such hypocrisies and fake modesty is rife amongst Indian women!
One comical yet simultaneously sad aspect of Indian women is where actually believe they actually possess qualities of more accomplished Indian women as if by osmosis!Therefore you have Indian women believing they are incredibly gorgeous SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT A FEW INDIAN WOMEN HAVE WON MISS UNIVERSE/MISS WORLD CONTESTS.
This insanity really started in 1994 when Sushmita Sen and later Aiswarya Rai swept the Universe and World titles respectively. God forbid women ever concentrate on the geo political and socio economic aspects of those awards. Is it a coincidence that these events heavily promoted by cosmetic brands honored Indian women thusly after India opened up its economy in 1991 and thus paving the way for foreign cosmetics.
Again women, especially feminists , have this perverse habit of taking credit for the sacrifices and achievements of other women and wishing to be complimented or compensated as if they have they themselves have done the same.
I see that Ms Martis has time to read Cosmopolitan and Vogue magazine but considers subjects like history and politics boring. Now I don't have any issue if you find something boring but then DONT MAKE PRONOUNCEMENTS ON MATTERS WHICH PRESUPPOSE A KNOWLEDGE OF AFOREMETIONED "BORING" SUBJECTS!
This chick like most Indian women has zero knowledge of not just history or politics but also religion,geography,geo politics, economics, military strategies, sociology and anthropology to name a few. But oh she sure does have an opinion on religion(its all a fraud don't you know) and nationalism is bunk(prevents her from supporting studly Australian cricketers). Is it any wonder she ends up sounding like a complete and utter bimbo. No scratch that, atleast bimbos are beautiful
Pretty much every Indian woman pretty much sounds like a complete and utter dits. If Indian men lack gravitas, Indian women correspondingly are lacking in proper grace and decorum. They do not subscribe to the dictum- Better to be silent and have people suspect you as a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Anytime I hear Indian girls talk in front of foreigners, I just want to hang my head in shame as they sound like such fools. And the absolute worst part is they actually think they are intelligent because they have an MBA or some other masters degree and work in some Fortune 500 company. Therefore their word is bond!They have zero knowledge of say the history Israel/Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, American defense establishment, Wall Street, the economy in general, the varying climate patterns of the last 10000 years BUT THEY HAVE AN OPINION ON EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE ISSUES AND THEN SOME! And pretty much all of them brainless left wing talking points. This is not to say all left wingers are brainless. Indeed some like Hitchens and Mickey Kaus are quite formidable intellectuals. But women , Indian women, pick the Left because that is what the celebrities espouse and it is socially acceptable in major metropolitan areas where they congregate. And to it feminism being the subset of the left and all the you go girlism associated with it.

I don't have a masters degree as it is not my cup of tea and frankly it didn't make sense to me from a cost benefit standpoint. There was this one chick who was interested in me but then had a change of heart because I didn't have a masters degree even as her degree was in absolutely lame field such as social studies! Hahahahaha! And I was earning 3 times what she was earning. Either way I never reciprocated as such because I had no idea of it at the time(a mutual friend revealed it to me later on) and while she was attractive  she was nothing really to lose sleep over so I quickly forgot about her.
This brings to the utterly crass wannabe elitism of Indian women. They get their nose up in the air so very quickly once they achieve some status.
One example of this is how Indian American girls treated FOB(fresh off the boat) Indian boys in university vs how Indian girls treat them who just landed in America a few years or even a few semesters prior! There is just no comparison. Indian Americans(and no they are not NRIs) of either sex are actually polite, well mannered and friendly with relatively few airs much like white or black Americans of the same background.
But Indian girls, good god! They wouldn't even look at these guys much less date. They actually felt entitled to date the white guys. Again no scratch that, they actually felt that white guys should be CHASING THEM because they are from the land of Aishwarya Rai and Sushmita Sen!
When very few white guys take the bait, they often turn to militant feminism.

And who hasn't noticed Indian women who hang out with white chicks pretty soon start thinking of themselves as somewhat white and in turn ..you guessed it...thumb their noses at Indian men (often to the latter's amusement). The same women who rage against admittedly silly products such as Fair and Lovely(unless you are talking about the potentially destructive practice of bleaching, no product makes you fairer, at best they neutralize the effects of and protect you from the darkening courtesy of the sun) quite often use it in private. But when it come to U.S and learn that their skin in somewhat considered exotic, they quickly ditch and harangue eager audiences about the racism of Indian society.
                                               "STOP STARING AT MY TITS YOU CHAUVINIST PIG!"


Darling you are at best slightly above average looking. Make up can help you when you are young but as you age and god will you age quickly and badly,trust me I know, your looks will take a severe beating and when you are finally ready to have children and settle down after your career(
hahahaha) is stable, do you really think any man worth his salt will want you.
Ive seen this play out all too often including some close female relatives. There is a bizarre tendency to select freak anecdotal evidence of women behaving or achieving in a unique manner and assume that applies to the entire gender! "But my aunt had a baby at 45"! they inform oh so earnestly, so surely I can wait for my prince as well " . Ms Anceeta suffers from the same delusions

Sorry sugartits, the chances are you are going to die alone(your cats which would feed on your corpse dont count). And when I see the low birth rate of Indians these days, scores of Indian women might as well join her. We will get by ...


216 comments:

  1. YSV a belated merry christmas and also a very happy and successful upcoming new year to you and your family :) Your take on the feminist tendency of Indian women is great and hilarious :)

    "This chick like most Indian women has zero knowledge of not just history or politics but also religion,geography,geo politics, economics, military ..." - This part of your observation can be extended to some other online hyper-patriots of our masculine fraternity also,I guess (if you know what I mean :) )

    People just wish to stay in delusion that Fair and Lovely will increase their fairness,Even there is a Fair and Handsome now for men :)

    Miss Universe or for that matter,most of these social awards at international level are driven by other considerations and not talent of the winner.

    "I don't have a masters degree as ..." - Lord Ram has actually blessed you by not giving you a life partner like this woman.Infact people of this kind of mentality should remain unmarried and single throughout their life :) ! ( just a joke and no hard feelings to anyone)

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    1. Well I already addressed Indian mens flaws and there is no lack of blogs addressing the same , so I thought I would concentrate on the women!

      Fair and lovely and other such products work to the extant of restoring a lighter complexion if you had one before and prevent further darkening but certainly not turning say a tribal australoid type into a Kashmiri haha

      Many such women claim that they need a husband but once they see their friends get married and the biological clock starts ticking, they change their tune very quickly

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  2. I went through her blog and it's filled with such hatred for Indians and India. I can't believe that she says Arabs are better than Indian men! The height of hypocrisy and cowardice! She knows that there will be no lash back if she says anything against India or Indians but if she says something against Arabs or their nation then she will perhaps never live to see the next day. Please do a post on Sagarika Ghose also.

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    1. To be fair, I am also critical of Indians. And I agree with some issues she raises(Indians being badly dressed for instance) but my frustration with Indians is that they have fallen from greatness and refuse to acknowledge their previous glory. Hers is just an inferiority complex

      She lives in Bahrain and while Bahrain is not as strict as criticism of its customs and peoples, it is pretty cowardly of her to absolve Arab men. To be fair, she herself claimed that she was a coward when someone brought it up in her comments board.
      Either way as per Spenglers observation.. if you see how hysterical and uncontrollable Arab women can get, then you will understand Arab mens inclination for domestic violence! Not a justification mind you. Im just saying it takes two to tango

      Sagarika Ghose to me is quite an uninteresting character. Like every othermedia elitist, she wants to earn some brownie points from the international globe trotters in Davos and other such place by putting down Hindu groups and causes. She is just a dumber version of Romila Thapar but in a prettier package.

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    1. To be fair to her. I remember how stupid I was in college and believing I was so very smart because I read a few books. Fortunately a elderly white former professor who lived in the same rooming house (usually there are college students who don't like dorm life but you have some others as well) schooled me on how to think critically. And then further reading as well as age(I am on the "Wrong" side of 30) did its usual magic.

      But this Anceeta broad is a very unusual case. She is that hopeless combination of arrogant, ignorant and stupid. I believe she will get worse as she gets older. She doesn't seem to have the capability or drive to succeed at work and will be hanging on to daddy's credit card well into her thirties , all the while lambasting the "patriarchy" and bragging about her "independence".

      And when she hits forty and is ready to get hitched, she will find no takers as whatever appeal she had were ravaged by time. And this will make her even more vicious and hate filled than before. Oh and she will also be barren.
      The silver lining in all this is that she likes cats, so that is a good indicator of the only creatures who will be able to stand her presence when she is a further embittered shell of her former self.

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    2. @ Iniyavel & YSV

      women's empowerment gone berserk in this case :)

      From whatever little I read on her blog content and mentality(I dont wish to visit anymore :) ) ,I have felt that she actually needs to be schooled on indian culture before making statements on it.Probably our capt will be the right person to coach her :P

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    5. @ Iniyavel

      "I'm a huge pile of garbage when compared to others around me. " - So am I :) It is not the pile of garbage that brings us down but the inability to see and accept that we need to improve and shed off this garbage,which is detrimental.You will always improve as long as you understand your own defects .For example I have learnt the art of logical and holistic thinking on any subject after I came in contact with YSV's blog.Otherwise just like you even I had initially taken many of claims of capt,like his jew hatred, at face value.Though I personally never hated jews ,i was just indifferent on these conspiracy theories,hence never investigated into them further and believed all the crap.YSV's writings cleared many of my misconceptions .

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    7. @ INiyavel

      Apart from SHaiva Siddhanta ,do not forget to chant Shiva's mantra every day.Mantra chanting creates a field of energy that encircles you.

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    8. @ Iniyavel

      "Watch out JAM, Captain already got arrested and sodomized in jail! If you leave this whiny little creature to him, he will go even more berserk and end up getting sodomized again!" - Iniyavel this one just rocked pal :)

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    10. JAM & Iniyavel: I have felt that she actually needs to be schooled on indian culture before making statements on it.Probably our capt will be the right person to coach her. Just imagine the aftermath if this Anceeta girl manages to entice the capt's second son and marries him. The capt will perhaps be admitted to the ICU.

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    12. @ Anu

      In that case,capt being a hypocrite,will glorify her beyond all boundaries :)

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    14. @Anu I believe the best punishment for both is for captain and her get married. She will be constantly frustrated and annoyed by his patriarchy and misogyny and he will be soon be embarrassed not to mention bankrupt by her chutney Mary customs and spending habits!

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    16. Iniyavel: The capt is a smart cookie and a hypocrite as well, he will convert to ROP and marry this Pomeranian.

      And the capt is such a looks-conscious person and posts selfies as if he is a teenager. Though he’s 60, he believes he’s 20. Have you ever wondered why he doesn’t use hair dye or hair colour to camouflage his gray hair and beard?

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    18. ROP means Religion of Peace or to put it in Prem Chand's words "you-know-which" religion.

      I too don't know why he doesn't use hair dye. Do you have any idea?

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    20. Iniyavel: Is that your comment?
      http://www.anceeta.com/p/about-me.html#comment-2066771817

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    21. @ Iniyavel

      "In Google Images, I entered HALF NUDE SELFIES OF (BUDHAU) VADAKAYIL FLEXINGHIS MUSCLES, and I saw his muscle flexing photos. I laughed out loud. " - Thanks for giving great entertainment bro :) Really google is throwing up his muscle flexing pics :)

      I checked that comment,it surely is Iniyavel no doubts :) Iniyavel do not engage her into a debate,you will become frustrated with her.The looks in her profile pics alone transferred some of her frustration and rage into me :)
      I dont understand one basic thing,how does the muscleflexing relate to his posts at all?Is it to show to Rothschild that Capt is strong enough to give him a bloody blow :) ?

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    22. You are right JAM, it's definitely Iniyavel's comment. Tamil nationalism in that comment is striking.

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    23. LOL on the punch into google search selfies of Vadakayil. I too saw those images. The capt has indeed become very popular on the Internet with his incessant spamming and littering at all places.

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    26. @ Iniyavel

      LOL . Capt is an avid fan of Rajinikanth :) So somehow your explanation sums up perfectly :)




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  4. @ All

    http://newsthatmattersnot.com/2011/07/shaktimaan-ripped-apart-sorry-for-you-shaktimaan.html#comment-133450

    Check the link above(with my reply in the last comment).Got this link today from SM.It has been written by some bong named Siddhartha Mukherjee.This guy is trying to use the laws of physics to ridicule an imaginary tv series meant for kids.For any other series I wouldnt have reacted this much but shaktimaan was unique in many ways from western or even Indian superhero charecters.Mukesh Khanna(actor of Shaktimaan) was praised by none other than Vajpayee for efforts in teaching cultural and moral values to Indian kids through the series.I am proud that every part of Shaktimaan represented India in and out instead of plagiarising batman or superman.
    Bengal is today a backlog because of bongs like these.They always try to drag in lame intellectuality everywhere.hence communism appeals to them because of its rich philosophy and literary tradition,though it yields shit in reality.Some of my friends in facebook put up pics of Che Guevara in the profile picture/timeline and feel proud of that .Ask them about the socialist Indian revolutionaries who actually sacrificed their lives for the nation,and you wont get any answer .

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    2. @ Iniyavel

      Communist economy in itself will collapse sooner or later,unless you can open it up like China's open door policy.Capitalism is the one that will bring wealth to the masses,not communism.If you can manage to get a patriotic and humanitarian leader who is 100% dedicated to the nation,then communism will yield high returns but still the caveat is that who will ensure a leader of similar stature through successive generations?This is where democracy and capitalism beats communism.
      The real socialist revolutionaries of India had all passed away in the preindependence phase.But if we start worshipping Nehru, Indira or Rajiv Gandhi like messiah does,then we will get three more "patriotic" socialist revolutionaries from the nehru-gandhi family in the post independence phase :P

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    4. @ Iniyavel

      Good imaginary insight on the dressing code of Shiva :)

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    5. @SMME
      How do you differentiate between "true" and "False" socialism? This is a standard excuse from all socialists as socialism as failed everywhere. It is not due to the practitioners but the theory itself which is flawed.
      Socialism is nothing more than watered down communism. Diluted shit is still shit

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    8. There are too many caveats to using the example of National Socialism as an example of "good" socialism

      1) The worst of the effects of Versailles treaty ie the debt payments which led to the hyper inflation were already on its way down when the Nazis came into power
      2) The economy was a really a mixed capitalist/socialistic economy aka fascism similar to what China is today
      3) People in a patriotic and communitarian spirit will accept high tax rates on themselves if it is for a greater good as a temporary measure. And certainly they will be productive with little financial incentive and produce quality goods and services even if not properly compensated.....for a short while
      4) The German infrastructure itself wasn't devastated like it was after WWII. THe German factories were operational and were soon profitable as in time they found a market
      5) Germany being a pariah nation ironically was protected from the Great Depression or most of its adverse effects
      6) Last but certainly not least which your neo Nazi friends don't seem to take into consideration- wholesale misappropriation of assets of the most prosperous community in their midst and their disenfranchising will create employment opportunity for other Germans as well investment of seized assets in other venues

      Epilogue: I trust Nazi statistics and propaganda about their "booming economy" as far as I can throw an obese German woman ...which is not very far.

      All in all socialists end up invariably misallocating and mismanaging their countries resources In the case of Hitler it was war. If not war, it would've been something else

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    10. @ YSV & Iniyavel

      "All in all socialists end up invariably misallocating and mismanaging their countries resources In the case of Hitler it was war. If not war, it would've been something else" - yeah this sums up the problem of socialism as a whole.The only option is to practise democratic socialism in a few sectors which would lead to formation of human capital for the nation.Infact India could have shown the path in the designing of a socialist high quality human resource building system,if the post independence leadership had made more sincere attempts on this area.
      The point that China inflates GDP and undermines other negative stats is well known.Infact this might turn out to be the bane for China in future when India would start catching her up in the manufacturing domain.20 times price rise in 10 years is not a very healthy thing for the gdp,as price rise lowers the NNP of a nation.So the effective GDP growth of China might be actually weaker than projected.
      Socialism is too utopian an idea to sustain itself on earth.When you get a system where all will get somewhat similar level of incentives irrespective of the amount of labour they put in,soon you will get a system where none works according to his full potential . Infact I found the economics in Quran to provide an interesting insight :) The Quran does not recommend socialist approach(infact it recommends followers not to be jealous of the wealth accumulated by others through honest means).But it advises the economically better off persons to donate a part of their acquired savings to the poor(even the ratio has been determined :) ) .THis would keep the money in circulation,which would otherwise have been kept in vaults,thus keeping the purchase power constant .

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    11. @YSV

      But one form of socialism, namely modern Western European socialism seems to work successfully. Or do you think the Danes will eventually stop being productive and let their country turn from a First world heaven to an impoverished beggar nation?

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    12. @ PremCHand

      A good point bro .But I think modern western Europe is what economists now call welfare state .It is not pure socialism.I was actually advocating this model of welfarism for India also in my last comment (June 8, 2015 at 4:27 AM).

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  5. The Chinese official is correct not to trust Chinese figures as it is a rather opaque economy and they frankly cheat by constantly devaluing their currency so that the will have the upper on manufacturing and exports.

    Of course if you keep devaluing your currency, it will lead to inflation and hence higher prices.
    China may not be as formidable as we imagine it to be or it could be even more. We simply don't know as the information to make an educated guess is not forthcoming.

    Fascist economy is simply corporations in bed with a socialist government. So you may say the current U.S administration is fascism lite. And we all see how that is turning out.

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    2. @ YSV & Iniyavel

      North Korea has set so high a standard in opacity that China seems bleak in comparison :P

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    3. @YSV

      Fascism is mainly a social rather than an economic ideology. Fascism has incorporated socialist economics in most of its iterations in history. However, the socialist economic policies should not be considered as the centerpiece of fascist politics. Thus the Jewish Bund in early 20th century Eastern Europe which was socialist was also anti-fascist.

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    6. @ Iniyavel

      It is not yet clear whether North Korea has developed the technology yet for a nuclear missile launch.This is what happens when you make your nation a closed box.Nothing will flow into it from the external world.
      See I hold more of a balanced opinion on the internal situation of North Korea.Sure it is a hell of a nation ,but the fact is that world media has created a far worse image of NK than it actually might be.I was recently reading practical experiences of diplomats and tourists who visited NK.They tell that much of the news circulated by media is overhyped.However that doesnt make NK any better nation to reside.Dont confuse this :) It is the NK govt which should be blamed for this thing.If you keep all your doors closed,soon the neighbours will start suspecting you and inflate every little bit of info that crosses.This has become the problem with NK.

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    8. I guess the diplomats and tourists were not visiting during the time of famine in NK in the 1990s. Facilities like electricity are only available to a fraction of the populace. Besides, the North Korean economy is kept propped up by China. Without China, NK simply would not exist today.

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    9. @ Iniyavel & PremChand

      PremChand is correct.The facilities are not available to the whole population.I think not only the economy,even the fact that NK is becoming a military threat is a contribution of China .

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  6. @Premchand Have you looked at the stats of Scandinavian countries lately ? Its not pretty. It indicates that Swedes, Danes are resting on the laurels of their ancestors and deficits are piling up. Finland is almost overwhelmingly dependent on a few industries like Nokia to keep things going.
    Norway has a booming oil industry which keeps things afloat similar to GCC countries.

    And now these countries were thriving at once due to a very watered down socialism coupled with small population ,social cohesiveness and a Lutheran work ethic.
    But that too is showing signs of strain. There is currently a massive exodus of peoples from that region wanting and this movement started BEFORE the Muslim crime wave in their countries and all PC nonsense which enabled it.

    All the while there always prices to pay. The standard of living is almost laughable compared to U.S not least due to high prices on every thing from a taxi ride( $100 to travel a few blocks) to a can of pepsi($6!!). Forget about more substantial services and commodities!

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    1. @ YSV

      interesting insights.So welfare state model is not as good as it seems from outside.

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  7. @Premchand re Fascism - Correct , I was concentrating on the economic rather than social aspects. Fascism is far more comfortable with religion than socialism. Which is the Catholic church overwhelmingly supported Mussolini and similar regimes.

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  8. @ JAM indeed Quran is far more pro free market than the Bible and Hinduism more than both.
    So the current situation where Muslim and Hindus are socialists are Christians capitalist is really a topsy turvy case where the respective religious precepts on economics are concerned.
    The writer PJ O' Rourke quipped on Qurans declaration that "Only god can fix prices" makes Mohammad not only prophet of Allah but also of Adam Smith!

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    1. @ YSV

      Haha that was a cool one :) But I would say that when Mohammad asserted "Only God can fix prices" he might have meant the invisible hand of Adam Smith in full force :)

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    3. @ YSV

      Recently I came accross an article which says that Christ would have been considered a socialist/fascist hero if he had come in this age .What's your views on this?

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    4. Islam prohibits usury without which Capitalism cannot function. So Islam being pro-capitalism does not make sense.

      Besides, the whole idea of associating economic models with religions is a category mistake. Religions deals with the next life and/or the supernatural. Chanakya was a Hindu economist. That doesn't mean his work was Hindu economics. It was just economics. Same goes for all religions.

      @JAM

      Christ could be called a racist to the same extent as a socialist. His plan of the New Testament btw was for Jews only. It was Paul's idea to take his message to the gentiles. The moral is that we cant casually assign modern ideologies to people from a different era. One extreme example is how some say that the Prophet Muhammad was a feminist ROFLMAO.

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  9. @ SMME

    A welfare state sooner or later ends up as a parasite state. This is the case ofBritain and U.S today- it is actually often comfortable more benefits and funds from the government if you are unemployed than when you are working. So what is the incentive to work? Thatchers ,Reagan and Gingrich/Clinton's welfare reforms were short lived. Tony Blair and Obama brought back the welfare state.

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  10. @SMME Swedish feminists are nowadays demanding that their men not stand up to urinate as that is "triumphing their masculinity" . Those broads are just deranged. Ultimately a lot of feminism out of control is due to a lack of sturdy male control. However unPC that sounds.

    Im afraid I see a lot of Indian men also behaving like total wusses and embracing the feminist agenda where they spend time lambasting their gender. You can take a look at wierdos and can tell their wives are cheating on them.
    The feminists are certainly not attracted to such men! Ive seen this whether in college or at work, self proclaimed feminists who claim to want sensitive men go out of their way to throw themselves at hunks! Not being neither a limp wristed beta male nor a hunk not to mention repelled by feminists, I never bothered but was just amused when they were often cheated on and beaten up by their men!

    Reminds me of arch feminist Gloria Steinem defending Bill Clinton during the numerous scandals of sexual harassment claiming that powerful men can get away with a "few gropes" especially if they support feminist agendas(which Clinton did). Hypocrisy thy name is feminism!

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    2. The irrational extremes of third-wave feminism is the result of post-modernist and deconstructionalist influence in liberal arts academia. This is the reason liberal arts academics show support for garbage like The Tao of Physics and What the Bleep Do We Know?

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  11. @JAM

    North Korea puts on a show and a false façade for tourists and diplomats. One writer Theodore Dalrymple who snuck into North Korea by pretending to be a part of cultural exchange program or something mentioned his bizarre experience in a North Korean shopping mall. Apparently it was like in the move The Truman Show, where every one was the assigned the role of "pedestrian", "window shopper" ,"loiterer" etc. He went in to a store to purchase a pencil and he noted the shock and confusion of the cashier as she had know idea what to do( I suppose its like asking an actor playing a programmer to hack into a server) and after fumbling with the cash register, gave him incorrect change(more than he deserved) and send him on his way.
    Another observer reported children playing a park around 0900 and when he came around to the same spot about a couple of hours he could see the SAME children playing the SAME game. So he came back after an hour , then 30 minutes and then another 2 hours. It was still the same. They were instructed to portray a "normal state of childhood" for the visiting tourists!

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    1. @ YSV

      Yeah for tourists I agree this thing can be possible.But for diplomats they will have to do this round the year.Anyway I am not a NK apologist and I know that Kim jong dynasty can go to any extent :) Here's an article where I got the first glimpse that some of the descriptions are probably overhyped :

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/13/mythbusters-uncovering-the-truth-about-north-korea-cannabis-metro

      But I repeat I am not endorsing NK in any way.As I said,it is a hellhole.I am just telling that probably some of the descriptions might have been coloured.

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    3. @ INiyavel

      Infact North Koreans are taught from childhood that Kim Jong dynasty controls weather :) Note that they could not resist famine even they they are lords who control weather :P

      However even media behaves like Kim Jong when it comes to news being circulated against NK :) For example,world media covered that North Koreans did not have access to viewership of world cup soccer of 2010 and they were made to believe that North Korea had reached the final.However this later turned out to be false.Some North Koreans have access to the outer world through smuggling rackets(they are mainly criminals) along Chinese border and Chinese mobile service companies operating in parts of the border areas of China and North Korea(illegally though).Their reports on this event say that North Koreans had seen the whole world cup on television with 24 hour delay (only those who can afford a TV there :) ) and knew the results of world cup as good as any other person outside NK(but with 24 hours delay :) ) . Infact the govt never tried to conceal NK soccer team's dismal performance in the world cup ,and had openly ordered forced labour punishment for the national team players,according to a leaked news from within the nation(something which FIFA took note of and the govt denied issuing any such orders).I really feel sorry for North Koreans in general.

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  12. @JAM

    Many wish to mould Christs saying into their particular ideology especially socialism. Certainly I don't think Christ was for fascism as he was anti authoritarian if not anti militaristic(though not pacifist)

    I think the most famous phrase they use to justify Jesus's anti capitalist views is ""Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."Matt 19:24

    Firstly , an eye of a needle is not literally an acutal eye of a needle. But in those days city walls had openings through which defenders would be able to see any enemy movements and those openings were poetically renderred in Aramaic as "eye of a needle".And small camels anyway would be able to pass through. But the view is the underhanded tactics and shortcuts that the rich use to buy their special privileges (the rich at the time had special corridor and walkways to grant them access to the Temple of Jerusalem). In later years the Pope would grant favors to the rich called indulgences where upon a hefty fee he would forgive them of many sins. It is with these funds that the Vatican paid Michelangelo to paint the Sistine Chapel.
    It was also these indulgences that angered Martin Luther to no end and it was the beginning of the schism within the church.

    So Jesus was speaking of the corrupt rich in that era as well as the corrupt priesthood(when he overturned the counting tables and beat up the money changers in the Temple). The moneychangers imagery is a powerful one, it has been used by populists on various groups from Armenians, Greeks ,Germans and Jews( the most prominent trading communities in the medieval era) to Wall Street banksters today.

    So Jesus being against militaristic Rome, the corporatist rich and corrupt priesthood not to mention having an apocalyptic views was as far from socialism and fascism as you can imagine

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    2. @ YSV

      thanks for your views.Now it became clear to me that moulding of this scale(converting Jesus into a Che) requires far more insight than what I had read in that article.
      I would also agree with your views that Quran was more open than Bible in economic thinking.Quran never says that it will be any harder for the rich to reach heaven than it would be for poor.What it stresses on is the honesty and benevolence of the rich class.
      And nothing comes close to ancient Indian economics :)

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  13. @JAM
    Diplomats actually are even more cloistered than tourists. Their movements are strictly coordinated and are kept under strict watch. Also it is an odd habit of diplomats to identify more with their host country than represent their own countries views.
    THis often occurred in Iraq, Lebanon and Syria where the American diplomats routinely and openly sided with the local governments and criticized American foreign policy while sweeping the human rights violations of those countries under the rug.

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    1. @ YSV

      Yeah I got it.NK would be the ideal destination for a person like Capt(who would most probably end up in a concentration camp from the very first day of his stay :) )

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  14. @Premchand Islam prohibited usury but only for Muslims. They were free to make use of other people services such as Jews who did practice it.

    Similar to how Hindus in the medieval era stopped going on voyages for trade or otherwise believing it would pollute them but were more than happy to trade with Arabs and others.

    It is important to note that while Chanakya , nor Muslim merchants may not have been religious scholars, they were not considered heretics or apostate for their capitalistic views.

    Having said, the Muslim Arab culture tended to be more mercantile than capitalist. Adam Smith loathed mercantilists more than statists because he believe the former were the ones who gave a bad name to free marketers.
    East Indian Company was mercantilist.

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    1. It doesn't say much that Muslims allowed Jews and Hindus to engage in usury, since they cheerfully believed that the infidels would be banished to the deepest pits of hell after their death anyway.

      Of course Chanakya et al were not considered heretics or apostate for their economic views. Religion does not have anything substantial to say about economics so it keeps quite when a knowledgeable person airs his opinion. Tolerance is not the same thing as recommendation.

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  15. @JAM Captain would pretend to post from glorious people paradise North Korea all the while enjoying the high life in cosmopolitan Seoul. Why would he break tradition of misrepresentation and hypocrisy ;)

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    1. @ YSV

      What else can you expect from someone who tries to portray Rajiv Gandhi as an uncompromising DeshBhakt ? :)

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  16. @SMME

    Ive heard that Chanakya was a Tamil on the basis that he is described as being from Dravid.
    OTOH I heard some others say that Dravida has nothing to do with Tamils as it is a collosal misreading of ancient texts. That Dravida is actually on the west coast in northern Karnataka. As an aside, the progenitor Manu came from Dravida who sailed northwards to the HImalayas during a flood. Could this be a myth from the end of the ice age about 9000 years ago?

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    2. Actually the most accepted etymology for Dravida is that it is related to the word Tamil. Damela -> Dravida due to Sanskritization.

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    5. @ YSV,PremChand & Iniyavel

      From the legend of Manu that Iniyavel quoted,doesnt it sound strikingly similar to the Noah's Ark myth?

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    6. Damela is a variation of Tamil. This idea was put forth by Kamil Zvelebil and Bhadriraju Krishnamurti.

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    7. @JAM

      Yeah there are many flood myths throughout the world which may have originated during the phase when earth emerged from the latest Ice Age. At that time, probably there was a lot of meltwater from the glaciers and ice caps which caused floods.

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    8. @ PRemChand

      Yeah it is probably linked to ice melting at the end of ice age.This sounds the most logical option.

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    9. Actually I came to know about the whole legend associated with Manu after iniyavel wrote that in his comment.Previously I didnt know that Manu and Noah's legend were similar to such a large extent.

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  17. @Prem chand Tolerance is tolerance which is good enough for the practitioners. There are as always different schools of thought within religions as to why this tolerance was forthcoming. All in all, I would prefer this tolerance even if grudgingly given by the religious folk over the utter intolerance of atheist statists such as the Soviets,Mao era Chinese and North Korean governments.

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    1. Religion has its own history of intolerance eg: Medieval Christianity. Even in Hinduism, caste discrimination was given a shot in the arm by religious beliefs. It is hard to say that the NK govt is atheist since they have elevated their ruling family to divine status. Sure a mild cult of personality like that surrounding Kennedy or Reagan is ok. But this is just religion in a different bottle. Communism, being an indiscriminate mixture of unfounded beliefs about economy, society, politics etc is technically not a religion, but not very different in its role and function.

      If you'd rather prefer the emasculating dhimmitude of Islam in the name of tolerance as long as it is good enough for everyday religious practice, then who am I to disagree.

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    2. I never stated that religions cant be intolerant! Whats with these strawmen

      Atheists set up quasi divinities all the time. You can see this from the French revolution when the Notre Dame was desecrated and made into a Temple for Reason and all the slaughter and atrocities associated with it to shrines to the rationalist Periyar in TN

      You cant simply dismiss the atrocities of atheism by hand waving arguments that atheism was incidental to communism! No atheism was CENTRAL to communist totalitarians

      As for snide remark about emasculation. I will let Theodore Dalrymple respond

      "Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. The purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.If you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to."

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    4. You didn't state that religions cannot be intolerant. But you were leaning towards the view that intolerance is somehow an inherent aspect of irreligiosity. Intolerance is simply the attitude of someone with power and a political agenda that his subordinates are unwilling to follow. Both religion and irreligion can take the position of oppressor or victim. Yes the advanced scientific knowledge of the 20th century both fanned irreligiosity and provided improved methods of killing people en masse. While there is an ocean of problems with religion philosophically, empirically and sometimes even morally, you choose to filibuster on this aspect alone to avoid the other arguments.

      FYI the invading Turks, Mongols etc who followed Islam had no moral problems with raping and pillaging. Religion and its morality did nothing to stop such atrocities. Religion is as powerless in the face of evil as rationalism.

      From this, it can be seen that atheism with its lack of a universal moral arbitrator is not really central to communist or Nazi totalitarians.

      It is ironic that you are quoting an atheist Theodore Dalrymple in your defense. Political correctness existed long before communism in the name of rhetoric. It is just one of the tools of the political trade to placate rebellious people. I dont know why you provided this quote, but I am guessing it is yet another instance of "I know religious people did it. But see, even the atheists commies did it! So religion is alright."

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  18. Dravida/ Damela is a bit of a stretch. Dravida itself is a Prakritic word , not so much Tamil. Dravida in Tamil became Thiravidar. Damila is used more by Sinhalese to describe Tamil invaders in the Mahavamsa. IMO a rather alarmingly supremacist and xenophobic book

    @Manu/Noah

    Manu was relatively more modest than Noah. He just wished save the Vedas but Noah wished to save humanity and animals!Obviously the literal Biblical story is impossible so we may have to restrict it to the Black Sea /Mediterranean environs where it would be Neolithic man that the bulk of earths population resided. Anyway even Noah is preceeded by the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh.

    The fish or Matsya Yantra of Manu is nothing more a giant seaborne vessel with navigational abilities due to its containing a large marine compass (a magnetized piece of iron in water).
    Matsya yantra is what Indian sailors referred to as a compass. That a place called Matsyadesha was in todays landlocked Rajasthan may be a strong indicator of a deluge.

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    2. Dravida is not a prakritic word. It is a Sanskrit word derived from the Prakrit Damela which may have been derived from the word Tamil. Of course this etymology is not set in stone but it is not anymore a stretch than its competing etymologies.

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    4. I say Prakrit because there were more Prakrit than Sanskrit speakers in Southern India. The earliest references from Prakrit speaking Satavahanas referring to Dravidas I believe. Though I forget in what context and who they exactly meant.
      Pallavas were also initially Prakrit speakers
      Damela is strictly speaking Pali more than Prakrit which due to Buddhism acquired a higher status than its mother language Prakrit

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    6. Mahavamasa yes is in Sinhalese and speaks of Tamils as medieval Christians speak of Muslims- an aggressive,expansionist and cruel group. At the same time, it considers the Tamils as Arya!Go figure!

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    8. @YSV

      The word Dravida is very obviously Sanskritic from its consonant cluster. Sure a Prakrit tougue may have borrowed it from Sanskrit, but a purely Prakrit word will have the form of Damela just like Dharma in Sanskrit vs Dhamma in Prakrit.

      Prakrit was not a single language to be the mother tongue of anything. Prakrit referred to any Middle Indo Aryan language that had moved from the distinctive features of Sanskrit. Pali itself was a Prakrit language.

      @SMME

      I wasn't going for humour, but could you please point out which of statements was funny?

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    9. I should've been specific yes,there are different Prakrits but by and large they were mutually intelligible. The Magghi Prakrit I believe was the gold standard and it was from this that Palis was derived.

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  19. @Premchand

    If I were around in the 1970s I would've considered myself if not a feminist then atleast very sympathetic to their cause. Who can be against equal pay for equal work or the right for a woman to divorce her husband if he is abusive and so on?

    But having won pretty much all battles that needed to be won, now the coming 4th generation with their micro aggressions and privilege phobias have turned inward and paranoid. They are alternatively wish to be protected from harsh "hate speech" which plays havoc with their emotions and at the same time wish to serve in the military! They achieve this by watering down military standards. A former U.S marine told me in despair that they no longer have boxing in the corps because women cant compete but they do have yoga ,massages and aromatherapy. These deranged feminists are turning the once formidable Marine Corps into a day spa!

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    1. Of course first and second wave feminism were legitimate social movements. I am only criticizing the nerdy and deranged third wave feminism.

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    3. @ Iniyavel

      Women should not be allowed to serve in the military atleast not on front roles .This has nothing to do with antifeminism but with the practical fact that woman captives stand a far higher chance of getting tortured than their male counterparts.
      If section 370 is imposed everywhere,India will be equally hellbound .

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    6. @ iniyavel

      Sorry I thought 370 was your idea.Anyway my stance on 370 is still the same.
      Agni veer is the spiritual guru of Capt,yet the latter doesnt acknowledge that.Respect for mentor is one the basic things Sanatan Dharma recommends :)

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    7. I don't wish to imposition of 370 by the central government but that each state decide its fate to some degree. Of course 370 was an exaggeration but if Maharashtra doesn't wish to be submerged by immigrants from UP and Gujarat who take the jobs of Ghatis or Bengal uses to combat Bihari blue collar entrants, then why not. It will force states to compete on an equitable basis.

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  20. @Premchand Sorry to say I find all your hand waving to be intellectually dishonest not to mention your utter ignorance of communist ideology. You are simply repeating your earlier claims and giving it a new twist.

    For you religion - bad, science -good. Everything else flows on there. That is as crude and reductionist as any religious fundamentalist. Keep telling yourself otherwise.

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    1. I know atleast enough about communism to know that it is primarily an economic and social ideology with religion being low in its priorities. I would agree that atheism is the reason for communist massacres if the massacres had a primarily religious flavour which they did not. Yes religious institutions and leaders were persecuted and murdered if they did not follow the state's line but the vast majority of death was not religious in nature.

      Next, I would agree that amoral atheism was central to the totalitarianism, if relgious states and the Church never engaged in totalitarianism. In both cases, religiosity is not the central factor, rather the human desire for power and control.

      No actually I never said that religion is bad, rather religion is false. Now who is erecting strawmen?

      You believe that the liberal policies in US like gay marriage and sexual revolution were linked to KGB plots so I am not the only person ignorant of communism.

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  21. @Premchand your notion that religion has the upper hand in intolerance has nothing to do with false or true. A person can believe today that the earth is flat ie wrong and be quite harmless. You believe it is wrong and therefore it is uniquely evil.

    The KGB files are not exactly a state secret anymore. Even Nikita Khruscheve said openly that Soviets would take over the American society through dissidents in academia and media who dictate culture!
    http://www.oregonteapartypac.org/former-kgb-agent-reveals-how-to-brainwash-a-nation/

    The word brainwash is a tad dramatic- "nudging" using behavioral psychology and economics is what they really practiced.

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    1. "your notion that religion has the upper hand in intolerance has nothing to do with false or true."

      Another strawman. As I pointed out earlier, I believe the human drive for power and control is the central factor for forming totalitarian entities like the Medieval Church or USSR.

      Being factually wrong is an evil in its own. I think it was you who pointed out in an earlier comment that spreading ignorance is a sin in Hinduism.

      Geocentrism today is almost impossible to defend so the modern geocentrist is likely to be a loser and hence harmless. But more importantly, geocentrism unlike religion is no longer important in politics (if it ever had been).

      I dont deny that the Soviets sought to bring as much of America under their control as possible. My point is that they never succeeded significantly, and certainly not by empowering queens :P

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    3. As mentioned above, Stalin and his successors couldn't make much of a dent on America's patriotism and morality. As for spirituality, the US can do with a little less fundy nonsense. Not to mention the real threat of evangelization that (fundy) Americans are inflicting on the rest of the world.

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  22. Forgot to mention even today Putinist outlets like Russia Today wail over bigotry against gays in U.S all the while Russia pursue gays even more vigorously!

    At the same time Putin is supporting anti fracking groups in U.S so that U.S remains dependent on foreign oil and Russia can maintain its energy stranglehold over Western Europe.

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    2. Judging from the American conservatives' cheerleading for Putin, he may have more success in gaining influence in the US by bashing gays rather than supporting them.

      Fracking is a mixed blessing at best with its environmental consequences. But yeah Putin might be supporting anti fracking groups out of his cynical political stance.

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  23. @Premchand Of course ignorance is a sin but there are varying degrees of such! The worst is mixing truth with falsehoods ala the captain. No one thesedays take cranks like flat earths seriously.



    Geocentrism is not the same as flat earth theory. Even before Columbus , no one believed in a flat earth except very primitive cultures. The church recognized that the earth was round (sailors at the very least knew this much) but it was what on the other side of the Atlantic and if going there was the will of God was what was up for questioning.
    Much of the less than flattering image that we have of the Dark Ages came from writers such as Deist writers such Washington Irving(most famous for the Sleepy Hollow).

    Scoff if you will about gays :) If a society gives in totally to hedonism and neglects its duties of producing offspring ,which forget homosexuals who unable even promiscuous heterosexual don't care for, then its a demographic death spiral which U.S is getting into and Russia is barely recovering from.Ironically it started when Russian women started refusing to have children in the 80s in protest of the Afghan war. IT was a small scale version of the Vietnam protests in America.

    Massive exodus of Russian women , abortions(at one time in the nineties exceeding births) and sterility of a substantial number of Russian men due to alcoholism further dented their birth rates.

    How and why did Rome fall. Simply because the elites didn't bother to replenish the Roman stock and were too busy having a good time(hetero and homo) all the while hiring Germans and Celts to fill up the military body.

    While this has not been discussed much- I would say a similar thing happened after the wars over the Kannauj triangle and Chola Chalukya wars of the late 8th-11th centuries. Entire regions in Karnatka, UP,Rajasthan, Punjab, AP and TN lay devastated for want of manpower. And the tribals were overnight invited into Vedic society in these regions in order to rebuild society thereby altering racial demographics!But that's another topic!

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    2. Geocentrism is only slightly better than flat-earthism. That the earth is spherical was known since Hellenistic times, but Islamic and Chinese cultures atleast favoured the flat-earth model until modern times.

      Yeah the Dark ages were not dark in the sense that they were depressing. Rather the dark is used to imply the lack of historical records from that period. In recent times more records have been uncovered hence the time dark ages no longer applies. However, advancement of science and technology was stunted throughout most of the Middles ages, and religious fanaticism is atleast partly to blame.

      Hedonism is a pleasure-seeking lifestyle. Using this term while discussing homosexuality implies a belief that homosexuality is a choice which it is not. Heterosexuals cannot be tainted by exposure to gay culture if that is what you are concerned about :) Japan and Greece are two examples of ancient civilizations which were tolerant of homosexuality.

      It is simplistic and reductionist in the extreme to blame homosexuality for the decline of Russia, Rome, Kannauj, Cholas etc. There are a huge number of factors involved here.

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  24. @Premchand I examined the American conservatives fondness for Putin in my post on him. It is a tops turvy world where todays conservatives are praising Russian values while criticizing American hedonism, while in the 80s man of the same people were lambasting the "godless Soviets"!

    Todays evangelicals are mostly harmless mild mannered people but they should keep away from areas where they are not welcome. For whatever reason they are a hit in South America, not among the poor but the Catholic middle class. They seem them as a healthy alternative to the hollowed out church!

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    1. I know I will be bashed for stating this, but the decline of the church is inevitable. Replacing it with rapture-expecting evangelicalism reminds me of that fire and frying pan cliche.

      Of course under the influence of western liberal and tradition also prosperity, the modern evangelicals are not directly harmful, but they are willing to exploit every available opportunity to convert the world to Christianity. Your lax attitude towards evangelicalism makes sense in the light of jihadism, but that is just a low standard.

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  25. @Palisthan hahaha

    Palestine is a corruption the Hebrew Falashtim who were a people probably from Crete a mixed proto Greek and Egyptian people with a dash of Northern European thrown.
    Rather than the barbarians as portrayed in the Bible, they were quite a sophisticated people.
    Incidentally both adjectives associated with Crete and Philistines- creting and philistine is used a term of abuse to describe an uncultured and uncouth person. When in reality they were inheritors of a classical civilization.

    Romans named Israel as Palestina(its how they pronounced falastim) in order to humiliate Israelites defeating them after Bar Kochba revolts I believe. Of course by this the Philistines were long gone and only the memories of Goliath et al remained.

    The current day Palestinians are mixture of Nabatean Arabs, Hebrews(Israelite and otherwise), Edomite and post Islamic Arabs. Contrary to Israeli propaganda therefore I believe they have deep roots but people with deep roots have been uprooted before in the trauma of war , so thats that.

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  26. There is a waxing and waning of religion. The post 1962 Vatican has attracted a lot of hedonistic and intellectual leftist types and that explains things like the current state of institutions like Notre Dame, Georgetown University not to mention Liberation Theology. Pope John Paul IImade peace with it but Pope Benedict wished to combat this but was too exhausted with age. ANd now the new guy sounds like a college professor of sociology!
    Apparently the fervent believers are arriving from the third world such as Africa and India and it is there from which later deacons and upper clergy will be replenished even as it remains a Western institution.

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    1. It is an open secret that Pope Benedict resigned because of the sexual abuse scandal. Of course the poor dear was just a scapegoat.

      The sexual abuse itself is not a result of hedonist corruption. Rather it is the product of following outdated customs like clerical celibacy. But when reform begins in such things, it might spread into other places ultimately reaching the level of Liberation Theology. It is a lose-lose situation. So the game is rigged against religion which leads me to conclude that religion is on a permanent waning trend in our times.

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    3. At this point, it is hard for the Pope to judge anyone for their sexual conduct after his own clergymen violated the laws in the most lurid and shocking manner heretofore seen only in movies.

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    4. Actually the late 19th and 20th century were far more traumatic for the church and religion in general. Around 1900 it was said that Egyptians believed that Islam would go the way of the Pharoahs and would remain a quaint curiosity even amongst the rural folk. That was not meant to be. In returned in full force though in a more Leninist form ala Sayyid Qutb.

      Religions don't falter on large theological issues but small technical issues which make life difficult for the populace.

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    5. I dont think Islam returned so much as reasserted itself under the guise of Islamism. The Islamic world is bigger than Egypt.

      The church may have experienced some political shocks in the 19th and 20th centuries, but atleast it maintained its dignity and social role back then. Christianity was well and thriving despite the political tussles. However, the future doesn't look promising.

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  27. I think the problem with the evangelicals is their anti intellectualism and therefore their enthusiasm for the Rapture and the Book of Revelation in general. Catholics actually are far more wary of such material. St Augustine actually wanted the Book of Revelation edited out of the Bible as he considered to be quite unnatural and possibly a forgery!

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    2. The Second coming of Jesus is a basic tenet of Christianity. Anyone who doesn't believe it is not really a Christian. Catholics believe it as well, although they are cautious about the timing of the Rapture since they have been wrong in the past.

      The main difference between evangelicals and the catholics is the former's belief in imminent rapture. That explains their missionary zeal. That said, catholics may not set much store by the Book of Revelations which is so weird one wonders if the author was on methamphetamine while writing it. The Garuda Purana contains descriptions of hell which although less weird is atleast equally graphic. The Quran has borrowed extensively from Revelations in its description of the end days.

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    5. Catholics were quite under represented as wild eyed harbingers of doom. They preferred to leave the 2nd coming of Jesus to the Books of the Apostles and preferred to discuss the Book of Revelation a lot less. It was with Martin Luther, the enthusiasm for Revelations really picked up.

      The Catholics tended to be more educated and tied to the corporal world of kings,lands and nobility and the latter wouldn't take too kindly to any apocalyptic talk

      The Protestants had a more egalitarian approach to conferring priesthoods but the disadvantage was the loss of quality control and therefore all sorts of cranks went around claiming the end of the world in 5,10,20 years.
      The ideological albeit secular descendents of these are the global warming harbingers of doom, In 5 years there will be no New York coastline(uttered in 2005), in 15 years massive crop failure and global starvation((2000) and so on.
      For me both these clowns are both sides of the same coin.

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    6. Egypt was a powerhouse of Islam, supplying the most vigorous soldiers and scholars in defense of the faith well after the conquest by Napoleon.

      You can engage in wishful thinking but religion isn't going anywhere if birthrates are anything to go by. Atheists are (non) breeding themselves out of existence while religious birth rate is still strong. I would say perhaps in 40 years atheism would be a curiosity and a silly passing fad!
      The only reason atheists even exist is because like homosexual who are unnaturally allowed to adopt, they use their power in academia and the media in a low underhanded manner to brainwash and subvert values of traditional folk all the while banning religion from the public sphere even if it is part of local secular custom.

      BTW most atheists are AWOL on Islam. Why is that? Well simply put-they are cowards.

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    8. Bill Maher is an exception as is Richard Dawkins who I believe did criticize Islam. Don't know about Sam Harris. Christopher Hitchens would provide a rather a milquetoast critiques of Islam , but nothing compared to his searing hatred for Christianity and Judaism.

      OTOH he supported the Iraq War and the war on terror in general.

      But the great bulk of atheists, homosexuals, feminists and other assorted leftists who keep snarking about Christianity and religion in general suddenly bend over backwards to appease Islam and ask that we "put things in context","crusades", "European imperialism","Zionism","islamophobia" and other buzzwords intended to replace their utter lack of spine while their ideological brethren are being tortured raped and murdered by Muslims of all stripes.

      Hey if atheists don't wish to come to the aid of fellow atheists due to their emasculating political correctness, I really have no desire to step in. I doubt very much atheists would be much interested in saving religious folk from oppression! I say let them lay in the bed they made!

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    9. "They preferred to leave the 2nd coming of Jesus to the Books of the Apostles and preferred to discuss the Book of Revelation a lot less."

      Actually no. The early church was totally obsessed with rapture. Jesus' followers believed that the rapture will happen within their lifetime as Jesus himself has promised. This enthusiasm faded out as rapture didn't seem to be happening after ~ 2000 years of waiting. The Protestants by taking the Bible literally are only following the example set by most of the early Church fathers. That is why they are called fundamentalists instead of just lunatics- they are going back to the fundamentals and clearing the years of corruption accumulated by the worldly church. Please inform yourself more about early Christian history.

      "The ideological albeit secular descendents of these are the global warming harbingers of doom"

      Sorry that is just pulled out of nowhere. CO2 levels have been rising ever since the Industrial revolution (which was started by Protestants btw) and with the current population of the world and heavy use of fossil fuels, it is only bound to go up. Of course climate change wont be a catastrophe ala The Day After Tomorrow, but it would cause floods, extreme weather, coastline advance in small islands like Fiji and other environmental disturbances.

      "Egypt was a powerhouse of Islam, supplying the most vigorous soldiers and scholars in defense of the faith well after the conquest by Napoleon. "

      Yes, but Egypt also came under the influence of the colonial powers even more than other Muslim countries due to its strategic importance.

      Yes religion isn't going vanish for the next century atleast but it will become less and less influential in real life. Meanwhile, the irreligious population is on a rising trend especially in the US as admitted even by religious people. It is lame to make predictions based on the current birth rate demographics. As if people whether religious or not can go on breeding like bunnies. The world population is predicted to peak at 9 or 10 billion after which it will be a downward trend for everyone.

      "The only reason atheists even exist is because like homosexual who are unnaturally allowed to adopt.."

      Not again with the foaming in the mouth theories. Are you really trying to establish that atheists exist because of homos?

      Of course you don't know about Sam Harris. Plenty of atheists are critical about Islam, in fact even disproportionately considering that atheism is mostly prevalent in the Western world. Some atheists do try to cosy up to religion whether Christianity or Islam like Theodore Dalrymple whom you earlier quoted. Harris' criticism of Islam would make Hitchens blush.

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    10. Please don't change the goal posts to score cheap points. I was not talking about the era of the apostles and their views are open to debate but the mainstream church of the later era which may have traced sipiritual descent from Peter but in its later organized form became a different beast altogether. No offense but I don't need to learn about any religion from you. I am familiar with the original sources not the regurgitated rubbish of Dawkins et al.

      Global warming hoaxes pulled out of "nowhere"?! . Have you been living in a cave with your hands over ears shrieking "lalalala I cant hear you" when prediction after prediction by your global warming heroes have been proven utterly false over the last 15 years? Sure CO2 has been rising so what? The effect on the atmosphere temperature is still negligible to inconclusive.

      The main models on which global warming was based was proven a fraud and a forgery. Did you forget about the East Anglia university computer model fiasco?
      If a model is accurate it should be able to make accurate predictions, all global warming predictions so far have been terrible jokes. I notice how gingerly you refuse to address this issue!

      And what is this lame comment about Protestants founding the Industrial Revolution? So what if they did? What gives you the idea I care either way?Have you completely lost your mind?

      ANd for gays and atheists- dude do you even know how to read?
      THis is what I said
      "The only reason atheists even exist is because like homosexuals who are unnaturally allowed to adopt, they use their power in academia and the media in a low underhanded manner to brainwash and subvert values of traditional folk all the while banning religion from the public sphere even if it is part of local secular custom."

      I was making a comparison between the tactics of recruitment of gays and atheists by the respective parties and making a case that like a parasite latches on to a host, they have to go around converting people to their cause not by persuasion but by misusing their authority

      When I said I didn't know about Harris's position on Islam I just being honest about my lack of knowledge and so didn't make any claim one way or another while being open to the possibility that he was critical. So I really don't understand your unhinged attack on my already confessed ignorance of Harris. Is today "score cheap points" in the Premchand calendar? Anyway I was speaking of the average atheist in media and academia , not your self promoting jackass celebrities such as Dawkins who by the way was beaten like drum and a red headed step child by the Archbishop of Canterbury. Apprarently Dawkins didn't even Darwin was a Deist. I mean if the Archbishop of Canterbury, the most milquetoast of religious figures makes a fool out of you, just give it up man!
      I already stated that Hitchens was soft on Islam, again what is your point?

      So my predictions about something substantial like birth rates of religious people are moot but your pie in the sky claims about religion going the way of the dodo are well and good- why exactly?

      I would rather breed like bunnies than be impotent and barren like the average atheist. Call me primitive if that makes you sleep better at night.

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    11. How is commenting on the early church moving the goal post? I was just beginning with Church history starting from Jesus' time which forms the basis of Christian faith. Have you forgotten the history of the crusades both inside and outside Europe? And no, I am informed by scholars like Bart Ehrman not just Dawkins. Just because you took a theology course all those years ago does not make you the resident expert.

      Climate change predictions depend on meteorology which has always been known to be inexact. I only support the consensus among scientists that CO2 level is closely tied to average global temperature which has been proven from 600,000 years of data. As to what would be the exact consequences, we cannot yet be sure. But that doesn't mean we cant act proactively on it. There you go.

      I mentioned the protestant comment to support the idea that GW research is not the ideological descendant of Christian eschatology by a long shot. You bristle every time I make an obliquely snide remark, but you have no problem with being trollish when someone disagrees with you.

      "they have to go around converting people to their cause not by persuasion but by misusing their authority"

      No this tired atheist professor trope is not true when you look at the bestselling works of New Atheist authors. Re homosexuals, you have adopted this other trope that homosexuality is a choice though you are not spelling it out.

      "Is today "score cheap points" in the Premchand calendar?"

      Oh please I was trying to match your constant use of invective when criticizing your opponents. I agree that I am not good at that and never will be.

      Actually Dawkins considers the Archbishop as his friend and no Dawkins was not made a fool of if you watch the full debate.

      Moderate religion will survive or in other words religion will survive by slowly selling itself out. That falls under the definition of decline.

      "I would rather breed like bunnies than be impotent and barren like the average atheist. Call me primitive if that makes you sleep better at night."

      You are missing the point: Even though atheists are leading now, the general trend in the future is going to be lower birth rates to avoid the Malthusian trap.

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    12. A lot of Church doctrine has really nothing to do with Jesus. For instance you yourself pointed out the Jesus was a bit of a racist and didn't want non Jews in his fold.
      Yup a theology course back in university was the extant of my study of religion! And I never touched another book on this subject ever since! Boy you sure got my number!

      "Climate change predictions depend on meteorology which has always been known to be inexact. I only support the consensus among scientists that CO2 level is closely tied to average global temperature which has been proven from 600,000 years of data. As to what would be the exact consequences, we cannot yet be sure. But that doesn't mean we cant act proactively on it. There you go."

      "Consensus" as in I scratch your back, you scratch mine approach to peer review papers and the like! Hahaha is this how science is supposed to work? consensus? Especially when so much grant money is tied into pro GW research.
      Once again you utterly ignore how the models have failed. Furthermore why act proactively on something of which exact consequences you don't even know? Does that make any sense especially if human lives and livelihoods are involved?

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    13. ...contd
      "I mentioned the protestant comment to support the idea that GW research is not the ideological descendant of Christian eschatology by a long shot. You bristle every time I make an obliquely snide remark, but you have no problem with being trollish when someone disagrees with you."

      Im sorry I still don't get the connection. I made the GW comment because like the prophets of doom they have been proven wrong but they still inspire belief amongst secular intellectuals. How is this paradigm any different from those still subscribing to eschatology despite its failed predictions?

      No this tired atheist professor trope is not true when you look at the bestselling works of New Atheist authors. Re homosexuals, you have adopted this other trope that homosexuality is a choice though you are not spelling it out.

      It may be "tiring" to hear 2+2=4 but it doesn't make it any less true.
      I believe the human genome is pretty much mapped out and there is flimsy evidence to show any "homosexual gene". Nevertheless I still believe Homosexuality may well be a combination of genetic and environmental factors. And environmental factors such as say a strictly heterosexual social norms may override any latent homosexuality. But once preferences are fully developed, they may be difficult to eradicate. But I don't see any harm in trying if the subjects submits to such treament voluntarily!

      "Oh please I was trying to match your constant use of invective when criticizing your opponents. I agree that I am not good at that and never will be."

      Invective? I keep arguments and invective separate. What I saw you criticizing me for not knowing the position of Sam Harris even as I admitted my ignorance. I also said that Christopher Hitchens criticism of Islam was lackluster at best. I ask you what sense does it make on your part to still call me out for something I already admitted?

      "Actually Dawkins considers the Archbishop as his friend and no Dawkins was not made a fool of if you watch the full debate."

      You and I see things differently. I suppose we should leave it at that.

      "Moderate religion will survive or in other words religion will survive by slowly selling itself out. That falls under the definition of decline."

      Now "moderate religion" trope. There is no such thing as moderate religion just as there is no such thing in being a little bit pregnant. Belief will manifest itself in the end. Im not too worried about it.


      "You are missing the point: Even though atheists are leading now, the general trend in the future is going to be lower birth rates to avoid the Malthusian trap."

      You mean atheists are "lagging now" . Chill , I don't wish to score a cheap point. I make typos all the time. Just wishing to clarify what you intended to say.
      Again Malthus and Ehlrich's predictions have been proven wrong. Most of the earth is not inhabited and due to advancing of agricultural technology ,barren , previously uninhabitable land may be reclaimed.
      Even with lower birth rates amongst all, the religious sub group will have the highest in comparision, so again the point is moot.

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    14. "A lot of Church doctrine has really nothing to do with Jesus. For instance you yourself pointed out the Jesus was a bit of a racist and didn't want non Jews in his fold."

      Well by early church I mean Paul as well who lived just a generation after Jesus. It was Paul's idea to bring Christianity to the gentiles. Paul the Hellenistic Jew had a more cosmopolitan outlook. One scholar (i forgot who) notes boldly that Jesus would have turned in his grave if he knew that Paul was taking his idea to the pigs.

      This consensus has taken place throughout the world including almost all countries with conflicting political agendas. Heck the Chinese are eager to manipulate their currency but agree to put a cap on their CO2 emissions at the cost of productivity. What does that tell us? I fail to see how a quid pro quo among researchers could work at this level. OTOH GW skeptics are libertarians disturbingly often. Since libertarians are also a rather small group and their think tanks are sometimes funded by corporations, I wont be surprised if a quid pro quo is actually at work here. Of course I am not suggesting that all libertarians are dishonest, just that there might be groupthink at work here.

      I explained why the models have failed: we are talking about weather patterns here which are never easy to predict accurately because of chaos theory. Even though the trees look murky, the forest is visible indeed: rising CO2 levels -> rising average global temperature -> melting glaciers/ice caps -> unusual and potentially disruptive climate. Being proactive about climate change makes sense because human lives are involved.

      Unlike rapture, some of the effects of climate change are already visible in the pattern and intensity of cyclones, frequent heat waves (including the recent one in your home state btw). The 10 past decade or so has seen the hottest 10 years since the start of temperature records. Aside from these, the chain of events I mentioned above stand in stark contrast to belief in rapture. Protestants were the most concerned about rapture yet ironically they started the engine of Industrial revolution which has resulted in high CO2 levels in the atmosphere. The ideological descendants of rapture cranks are still rapture cranks like Fred Phelps, not climate scientists.

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    15. contd

      "I believe the human genome is pretty much mapped out"

      What that means is we know the full genomic code like binary code 000100010 but it still doesn't fully make sense. We don't yet know fully as to which genes are connected to which functions. Homosexuality may have something to do with environmental characters like the number of female children born before a male child which changes the foetus' brain make-up when it is still not born. All this doesn't support the conclusion that homosexuality is a conscious individual choice.

      "What I saw you criticizing me for not knowing the position of Sam Harris even as I admitted my ignorance."

      Well I respect that you admitted your lack of knowledge honestly. I did fly off the handle there. But I still hold that you use invective the minute you realise someone is not agreeing with you. It starts mildly and climbs in intensity. But that is your personal choice and I can't comment anymore about that.

      The comparison of religion with pregnancy doesn't work as they are totally different things. Religion is a worldview and like all worldviews, it is possible to be moderate.

      Leading the trend of less children, or lagging in having children-both same. I meant the former but may be I should have been clearer.

      There is plenty of land, but not as much of other crucial factors like environment, atmosphere etc. It is important to note here that agriculture is not 'natural' - nature never intended humans to discover a method to grow their own food and reproduce uncontrollably. Of course Malthus' predictions are a bit extreme but it is a well known fact that population will start to peak as it is already happening in some countries. Even in India (!), the rate of population growth is slowing down which will be followed by population plateauing in the future.

      Some extreme religious sects like Haredis and Mormons do have higher growth rates but it is not a healthy trend. They are just a pain in the neck for their countries Israel and US by not participating in secular society, depending on welfare (Haredis in Israel) etc. I am not expecting this trend to continue indefinitely into the future.

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  28. @Iniyavel Stoning dissidents to death is not tVedic custom. At best they are ostracized . Let us not become mad mullahs. We can be cosmopolitan and maintain healthy morality at the same time.

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    2. Persians and feminists are apples and oranges. Anyway Persians never went beyond the Indus and weren't able to threaten the heartland even as the easily invaded Central Asia and the Middle East.

      Our custom is for dissidents to submit to a debate or have them removed from polite society. Feminists being thin skinned and attention hogs will die off in a couple of weeks.

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    4. @ All

      Speaking of feminism,yesterday the #despitebeingawoman hashtag trended on twitter.The feminists dont care when Modi speaks for special care and privileges to women throughout the year and also brings out relevant schemes to empower girl children.They suddenly started jumping at the use of a single phrase taken out of context.This is the damage feminism does to the brain :)

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  29. @Premchand I didn't blame homosexuality per se but hedonism in general.

    Cholas and Chalukas etc were a separate point which I should've made clear. I was talking about the devastation of war and lack of manpower.

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    2. @YSV

      It occurs to me that hedonism is a symptom rather than cause of decline. In the case of the Romans, their manpower in the east was depleted by the Plague. This started a chain of events in which the roman legions from the west were sent to defend. Ultimately, the weakened Roman army ceded much land to the expanding Arab Caliphate. The vacuum left by the romans in the west was taken advantage of by the 'barbarians' who invaded and brought the western roman empire to an end.

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    3. @ PremChand ,YSV & Iniyavel

      Hedonism is bound to fail because the world cannot afford to be hedonist.Infact here the paradox of hedonism comes into force,ie,you search constantly for sources of pleasure,which rob your happiness ,thus effectively reducing your pleasure .

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    1. @ Iniyavel

      Replied to that idiot's comment.Somehow the comment irked me (probably the stupidity and blindness in the comment).I didnt see this comment back then .

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    2. @ All

      https://plus.google.com/+JayanDivakaran/posts

      Look at the posts of this dickhead named Jayan Divakaran.Today I was going through his profile.He just mirrors whatever capt writes.So when capt would stop writing,this idiot Jayan would also have to wind up his business :)

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    3. @ Iniyavel

      You have done a great job :) searching with that line is actually yielding a muscle flexing pic of capt.Enough provocation for Dev,Jayan Divakaran or many other suckers to start swooning :P

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    5. From where is JD copying all that stuff to write on his blog. And I didn't find the comment where JAM replied to Dev Saha.

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    7. @ Iniyavel

      Jayan's apologies make him all the more crackpot in my eyes .Infact when I see the people who showed Modi as Kalki avatar now demean him without any limits,I feel that these minions are more U turners than Modi.Capt's knowledge of constitution and practical goverment functioning is pathetic,hence capt's bashing of Modi (or even Jayan's ) should not be taken seriously.

      @ Anu

      Jayan copies from capt .I doubt whether you will find any new info on his blog which you wont get in capt's blog.Jayan is the North Korea to Capt's China :)

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    8. The captain , if not quite mad, is a terribly confused individual. He mandates that Indians be faithful not to the constitution (which he equates to a throne) but to Bharatamata.

      I think one would need a book to dissect all the flaws in that bizarre assertion.
      When I see the captain is constantly disappointed with Modi I wonder if he is even capable of what he constantly orders his minions to do ie. "PUNCH INTO GOOGLE SEARCH" , did he ever "PUNCH INTO GOOGLE SEARCH" Modi's views on Zionism, U.S ,Indo Israel relations, defense pacts, his watered down Hindutva agenda etc etc BEFORE he elevated him to the anti Zionist crusading Kalki?
      I mean it was all right there. Modi is just implementing his views he had when he was Gujarat CM to the best of his abilities. Whether it is good or bad is a different subject. But accusations of of U turns and betrayal is just a testament to the utterly shoddy research skills of the Captain.

      Jayan Diwakaran is a garden variety captain follower/clown. He simply handwaved away the fact that the captain lives in Manipal. Utterly oblivious or indifferent to the hypocrisy, lying and the lack of character on part of the captain that such a fact reveals.

      I still maintain that its a big fucking deal. Its roughly the equivalent of Benjamin Netanyahu seeking to retire in Saudi Arabia!

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    10. Hijra means eunuch and budhau means oldie.

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  31. @ All

    Those of you who have twitter accounts can hook with with me :) Here's my account ,started it today :

    https://twitter.com/jam2579

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    1. JAM ,finally saw your comment there; never saw you in such rage before.

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    3. That comment of blind fanfollowing by Dev Saha particularly irked me ,nothing else .If any more minion comes to disturb YSV in this blog,I would treat them in the way they deserve.zombies cannot and shouldnot be given the respect which humans get :)

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  32. YSV: Snake rituals are prevalent in Kukke Subramanya and many infertile couples perform the Ashlesa Bali puja to beget a child. What is the connection between snakes, fertility and Lord Kartikeya?

    Many years ago, cricketer Ravi Shastri performed these rituals at Karkala and got a daughter after 18 years of marriage.
    http://www.mangalorean.com/specials/specialnews.php?newsid=514701&newstype=local

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    1. Snakes from atleast the Neolithic era were associated with fertility. Probably due to their ability to shed their skin and arise anew.
      Karthikeya or Velan/Subramanya in the south has the imagery has a handsome male who able to inspire erotic frenzy in women.

      Snakes are associated with Shiva and Karthikeya is a son of Shiva.

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    2. @ YSV & Anu

      Not only south,Kartikeya is worshipped even in Bengal for getting blessed with offspring.Kartikeya is considered to be a very powerful and benevolent deity in Bengal,hence it is believed that he would fulfill wishes.
      There's a custom in bengal where neighbours leave back a small idol of Kartikeya into the home of newly wed couples.It is expected that the couple would then organise a Kartikeya Puja with that idol,and then feed the neighbours :) In turn Kartikeya would bless them with a healthy offspring.In general going by the Bengali worship methods,you can worship Kartikeya on any other deity's puja day(like Durga,Kali etc) because Kartikeya is considered very auspicious and any day of any deity can be chosen to perform a fullfledged Kartikeya puja.

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    3. Interesting JAM. I didn't know that Kartikeya was worshipped in Bengal also.

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    5. @ Anu

      Not only just ritualistic worship,Kartikeya is considered to be a very benevolent deity who fulfills your wishes.
      But what is flooding Bengal at present is the worship of Hanuman.Even Sikhs and Jains or other nonhindus are visiting Hanuman temples to seek blessings.I wont be surprised if Muslims also come to pray to Lord Hanuman in the near future :) Lord Hanuman's divinity is awakened to an amazing degree(probably because he is immortal) .All you need to sense this is a bit of devotion to him and nothing else.The unique thing about Hanuman is that this is the only form of God whom you will find prostrating to someone(Rama),something that is not a charecteristic of God.THis is what makes Hanuman special.



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